Barking.

[bikle]

Over the last few months my Douglas has developed a nasty habit of barking whenever he wants something.

I think that this is a result of the behavior being reinforced when he plays fetch. When playing, he places the ball at a person's feet and barks until they throw it. Obviously, throwing the ball is the worst thing that can be done, but others who do not know any better (and when I have not been around to ask them to stop), have just thrown the ball in an effort to keep him quiet.

Whenever the barking starts, I remove the ball/toy and leave the backyard completely.

My problem is that the barking has started in other scenarios, when Sir Corgi wants something. Georgia (my other corgi) may have a bone or a toy, or simply not have finished her dinner yet (while he has finished his) and he will bark continuously until I remove him, or he forgets what he is barking about.

He also barks when we are eating dinner, or when he wants to come inside, or when he can see us out the front and wants to be there too. The barking gets considerably worse when guests come over, or if another dog comes into the house (I foster for rescue).

I am intending on asking all guests not to play with him, and ignore him completely for the first 20 minutes.

I was hoping that separation may solve the problem, but on the weekend, the barking was a big problem (despite toys being removed and people stopped giving him attention), so I placed him in the laundry, where he continued to bark for the next half hour before he finally settled...

Any ideas?

[Erny]

Continue as you are - keep ignoring, but ensure that you are consistent with it. After a minute or so after he has quietened, THEN pay him some attention. He starts to bark again, and out he goes.

As always, ensure your 'pack leadership' status is identified by your dogs as being "up there".

Follow the NILIF program (Nothing In Life Is Free) - this will help him realise that his demands for what he wants when he wants it are simply not going to be met.

Make sure YOU instigate all contact, and not the other way around.

Don't forget that ignoring includes not only no speaking and no touching, but NO EYE CONTACT either.

As you've already suggested you will , control the activities of others around your dogs so that your behaviour modification efforts are not hindered and so that your dogs are reinforced and subsequently learn unwanted behaviours that they later have to be punished for.

Purchase ear plugs and have a supply for your guests if need be.

ETA: Fostering rescue dogs is an immensley admirable thing to do ;) but it does have an impact on the 'family pack order' with dogs coming and then going. Whether or not this has had a bearing on your dog's behaviour problem worsening or not is difficult to tell, although the idea is very possible. But as you say, by the sounds of it it has not been the singular initial cause, which is learnt behaviour from earlier on.

Edited August 6, 2007 by Erny

[bikle]

Continue as you are - keep ignoring, but ensure that you are consistent with it. After a minute or so after he has quietened, THEN pay him some attention. He starts to bark again, and out he goes.

As always, ensure your 'pack leadership' status is identified by your dogs as being "up there".

Follow the NILIF program (Nothing In Life Is Free) - this will help him realise that his demands for what he wants when he wants it are simply not going to be met.

Make sure YOU instigate all contact, and not the other way around.

Don't forget that ignoring includes not only no speaking and no touching, but NO EYE CONTACT either.

As you've already suggested you will , control the activities of others around your dogs so that your behaviour modification efforts are not hindered and so that your dogs are reinforced and subsequently learn unwanted behaviours that they later have to be punished for.

Purchase ear plugs and have a supply for your guests if need be.

ETA: Fostering rescue dogs is an immensley admirable thing to do ;) but it does have an impact on the 'family pack order' with dogs coming and then going. Whether or not this has had a bearing on your dog's behaviour problem worsening or not is difficult to tell, although the idea is very possible. But as you say, by the sounds of it it has not been the singular initial cause, which is learnt behaviour from earlier on.

Thank you very much for the reply Erny. I think I am going to have to get very strict and consistent with this before it gets any worse.

Do you think that ignoring him is enough, or do you think that separating him from the group when he attention-barks is a good idea?

I am pretty sure that a lot of my problems are as a result of very unclear pack order in the house, and you are probably right about the fostering further confusing him.

Do you think I could effectively re-establish myself at the top of the pack whilst still bringing in fosters?

I would prefer not to stop fostering, as the rescue group I am involved in are fill to the brim..

And once I have shown him that I am pack leader, what can I do to minimise the fosters from confusing the pack order in the future?

[Erny]

Do you think that ignoring him is enough, or do you think that separating him from the group when he attention-barks is a good idea?

If he's barking at you, yes you could ignore. If he's barking at your other dog, I'd be inclined to put him out if he doesn't "quiet" on your command. If you have guests over, it might be somewhat difficult to cope with the barking, in which case I'd put him out if he doesn't "quiet" to your command in this instance.

Please remember to give him nice attention once he has quietened. But not immediately. Wait for at least a minute or so's silence.

Do you think I could effectively re-establish myself at the top of the pack whilst still bringing in fosters?

I believe you can. It's because of the constant re-shuffle of pack order that fostering causes that you being pack-leader becomes even more mandatory and needed than ever.

I would prefer not to stop fostering, as the rescue group I am involved in are fill to the brim.. ;)

I don't wish to tell you to stop either, for the same reasons. I love the work the rescue world do. It's a matter of see how you go and do the best you could possibly do. I think many fosterers manage to cope and not all have noticeable issues. Perhaps visit the rescue thread (general section) and post a thread asking for the experiences of others. I've read of one or two people who have stopped fostering for the sake of their own dogs, but that's not to say it counts as a majority.

And once I have shown him that I am pack leader, what can I do to minimise the fosters from confusing the pack order in the future?

Make sure that from the get-go you set boundaries and limitations, don't accept shenanigan (sp?) behaviour and exhibit leadership to them too. Be a strict but fair leader to them all. This is often difficult and not what we are inclined to do when a new dog comes to us - we tend to go straight into nurture mode as if that is the most important need of the dog.

That's not to say you can't have fun with them. Whenever I speak of leadership and its importance, I always feel as though I sound like the fun-police. This is far from the truth of my intent. Have fun but on your terms ..... everything always on your terms.

[Silak]

Continue as you are - keep ignoring, but ensure that you are consistent with it. After a minute or so after he has quietened, THEN pay him some attention. He starts to bark again, and out he goes.

As always, ensure your 'pack leadership' status is identified by your dogs as being "up there".

Follow the NILIF program (Nothing In Life Is Free) - this will help him realise that his demands for what he wants when he wants it are simply not going to be met.

Make sure YOU instigate all contact, and not the other way around.

Don't forget that ignoring includes not only no speaking and no touching, but NO EYE CONTACT either.

As you've already suggested you will , control the activities of others around your dogs so that your behaviour modification efforts are not hindered and so that your dogs are reinforced and subsequently learn unwanted behaviours that they later have to be punished for.

Purchase ear plugs and have a supply for your guests if need be. :p

ETA: Fostering rescue dogs is an immensley admirable thing to do but it does have an impact on the 'family pack order' with dogs coming and then going. Whether or not this has had a bearing on your dog's behaviour problem worsening or not is difficult to tell, although the idea is very possible. But as you say, by the sounds of it it has not been the singular initial cause, which is learnt behaviour from earlier on.

Thank you very much for the reply Erny. I think I am going to have to get very strict and consistent with this before it gets any worse.

Do you think that ignoring him is enough, or do you think that separating him from the group when he attention-barks is a good idea?

I am pretty sure that a lot of my problems are as a result of very unclear pack order in the house, and you are probably right about the fostering further confusing him.

Do you think I could effectively re-establish myself at the top of the pack whilst still bringing in fosters?

I would prefer not to stop fostering, as the rescue group I am involved in are fill to the brim..

And once I have shown him that I am pack leader, what can I do to minimise the fosters from confusing the pack order in the future?

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Just on the drive work, you need to stop taking away the ball when the dog barks, this causes frustration & will elevate drive, which is a plus, but with no way to relieve it, the dog will exhaust that pressure elsewhere, like the barking you are having.

It is time to add a no reward marker in your drive work, which in this case would be, your dog barks you stop immediately & give a NRM. Such as no, or uh uh.. It will mean to the dog you are not going to get the reward & if your timing is good, it will be paired with the bark.

It will then be in the dogs best interest to not bark...

[bikle]

K9: Just on the drive work, you need to stop taking away the ball when the dog barks, this causes frustration & will elevate drive, which is a plus, but with no way to relieve it, the dog will exhaust that pressure elsewhere, like the barking you are having.

It is time to add a no reward marker in your drive work, which in this case would be, your dog barks you stop immediately & give a NRM. Such as no, or uh uh.. It will mean to the dog you are not going to get the reward & if your timing is good, it will be paired with the bark.

It will then be in the dogs best interest to not bark...

Thanks K9.

How long do I wait after I give him the NRM before I throw the ball again?

The problem is that he has learnt that if he is persistent enough, he will generally get what he wants.

On the weekend he was told 'no' and then he barked... My guests, absent mindedly kicked the ball after around 10 minutes of the barking - rewarding him for his persistence.

Should I remove the ball and toys from him completely?

Are there other ways I can satisfy his drive?

He is not very food focussed.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Just on the drive work, you need to stop taking away the ball when the dog barks, this causes frustration & will elevate drive, which is a plus, but with no way to relieve it, the dog will exhaust that pressure elsewhere, like the barking you are having.

It is time to add a no reward marker in your drive work, which in this case would be, your dog barks you stop immediately & give a NRM. Such as no, or uh uh.. It will mean to the dog you are not going to get the reward & if your timing is good, it will be paired with the bark.

It will then be in the dogs best interest to not bark...

Thanks K9.

How long do I wait after I give him the NRM before I throw the ball again?

The problem is that he has learnt that if he is persistent enough, he will generally get what he wants.

On the weekend he was told 'no' and then he barked... My guests, absent mindedly kicked the ball after around 10 minutes of the barking - rewarding him for his persistence.

Should I remove the ball and toys from him completely?

Are there other ways I can satisfy his drive?

He is not very food focussed.

K9: this isnt a reason to stop this work, unless you want too. There are always other ways...

I would train as normal, when he starts to bark, you come to an immediate halt & stand up straight like the Alpha & at the same time give a firm NRM as described...

He should stop barking, when he does, pause for a few seconds. Keep eye contact with him & make sure he is a little submissive.

Then walk to a new place keeping the same attitude, call him to you & give you trigger command & begin again..

It may take a few times but you will highlight what STOPS the game is him barking...

[bikle]

K9: Just on the drive work, you need to stop taking away the ball when the dog barks, this causes frustration & will elevate drive, which is a plus, but with no way to relieve it, the dog will exhaust that pressure elsewhere, like the barking you are having.

It is time to add a no reward marker in your drive work, which in this case would be, your dog barks you stop immediately & give a NRM. Such as no, or uh uh.. It will mean to the dog you are not going to get the reward & if your timing is good, it will be paired with the bark.

It will then be in the dogs best interest to not bark...

Thanks K9.

How long do I wait after I give him the NRM before I throw the ball again?

The problem is that he has learnt that if he is persistent enough, he will generally get what he wants.

On the weekend he was told 'no' and then he barked... My guests, absent mindedly kicked the ball after around 10 minutes of the barking - rewarding him for his persistence.

Should I remove the ball and toys from him completely?

Are there other ways I can satisfy his drive?

He is not very food focussed.

K9: this isnt a reason to stop this work, unless you want too. There are always other ways...

I would train as normal, when he starts to bark, you come to an immediate halt & stand up straight like the Alpha & at the same time give a firm NRM as described...

He should stop barking, when he does, pause for a few seconds. Keep eye contact with him & make sure he is a little submissive.

Then walk to a new place keeping the same attitude, call him to you & give you trigger command & begin again..

It may take a few times but you will highlight what STOPS the game is him barking...

awesome. thankyou.

will put the plan into action..

my neighbors are very understanding, but hopefully i can get it under control before they lose the plot