Help With Heeling

[Kaffy Magee]

Ok my 8 month old dobie boy is veeery intelligent. He has picked things up without me really teaching him. I have barely done any obedience with him and when i have its very short, yet he is almost perfect in his sits(and always sits beside me), stays, drops, waits, recall, heeling. Ive barely taught him yet he knows what to do...im amazed, ive never had such a smart dog.

When i put on his check chain, he knows we are working, yet like i said i havent done much obedience with him so it amazes me he knows what a check chain means.

Ok so ive raved about him enough

Anyway one issue im having is when we are heeling he is very close to me to the point it makes it hard for me to walk freely. I can still walk but hes touching my leg and when he sits he leans on me. How can i stop him from doing this? Ive tried pushing him away with my leg while we're walking but he comes straight back. Should i continue with this and praise in that split second he is away from my leg or is there something else i can do. Thankyou in advance.

Also re: the check chain, our obedience club dont allow them. I havent been there for quite some time but if i go back, which i assume i will as i would like to compete with him do they have any right to tell me i cant use a check chain?

[weisnjac]

Also re: the check chain, our obedience club dont allow them. I havent been there for quite some time but if i go back, which i assume i will as i would like to compete with him do they have any right to tell me i cant use a check chain?

Can't help with the technical stuff But if I'm thinking of the club you are talking about. They won't let you use one

[TNT]

ok- first of all- my club uses nothing but check chains- very different to the norm apparently!.

2ndly- I'm not claiming to be an expert- but when he leans against you in a sit- dont say anything and just step away from the dog enough that he can no longer lean on you. Basically put him in the position you want him by moving. Thats what I was told anyway!

[dogdude]

Hi KM

Here's the thing.......... most obedience clubs will not teach you competition style heeling from the start, otherwise they would teach you that focus comes before heeling.

They cater for the average pet owner who want's loose lead walking. That is the main reason newbys take so long to start trialling their dogs. They find they need to reteach a lot of unwanted default settings resulting from basic early class stuff.

Getting back to my point, your dog is pobably leaning on you to avoid the need to focus. Why pay attention if he can just feel where you are? Dogs will always take the easy option if it is presented, after

all, there are far more interesting things to pay attention to at dog club.

My first dog had the habit of placing his right paw on my shoe to feel where I was.

Anyway, just teach focus first and it will fix the problem.

[Kavik]

What about throwing in more left and left about turns? As these turns go into the dog, he may decide to give you a bit more space.

For people who have the opposite problem of the dog being too far away, right and right about turns help to bring the dog in closer.

[Rom]

Hi KM

Here's the thing.......... most obedience clubs will not teach you competition style heeling from the start, otherwise they would teach you that focus comes before heeling.

They cater for the average pet owner who want's loose lead walking. That is the main reason newbys take so long to start trialling their dogs. They find they need to reteach a lot of unwanted default settings resulting from basic early class stuff.

Hey Dogdude, do you see this as a problem? If so, how? I'm not doubting, just wondering cuz its a subject that I've been giving some thought to.

I've been thinking about it along these lines.....

When we teach something new to the dog, we break it down and introduce it in its simplest form and then gradually increase the criteria that we ask for or add new steps. So I've been wondering if it wouldn't be easier to teach a loose lead walk first and to move from that to the more formal heel?

ETA: I'd be thankful for any if you can point out any faults in my reasoning

The thing that got me thinking about it is the number of dogs that I've seen that can heel in class or trial ring, but they pull like a steam train outside of class or the ring.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Rom

[dogdude]

Yes,agree Rom, but there are both short and long answers to those questions.

Loose lead walk would simplify things and avoid all of the confusion with the actual difference between the two for a start, but in saying that, if the dogs proofed properly from the start then in most cases loose lead walking is a bi-product of good heeling training.

Of course, the average jo-blo will not proof their dogs so concentrating on loose lead walking will force them to proof.

Your idea has merit IMO.

[Erny]

Anyway one issue im having is when we are heeling he is very close to me to the point it makes it hard for me to walk freely. I can still walk but hes touching my leg and when he sits he leans on me. How can i stop him from doing this?

This can either be the result of a training issue, or can be more deep seated as a 'pack leader' issue. If the latter, it can be a claim of your space by the dog and/or a manner of the dog 'herding' (ie steering) you rather than the other way around.

I would not move out of his space - that's sending a message to him that he is entitled to it and may well be reinforcing his idea of higher heirarchy status (especially if it is 'pack leader' issue). Assuming it is not setting up confrontation that you would not be able to safely deal with, I'm inclined to push back into the space the dog is trying to claim. Nudge him off your leg with your leg when he is leaning into it at the 'sit'.

Kavik :

What about throwing in more left and left about turns? As these turns go into the dog, he may decide to give you a bit more space.

This is what I do. But as soon as the dog is exactly in the space you desire, move forward and begin randomising with right/right about turns. When/if he comes in so close as to interfere with your walking, take that moment as a cue to left-about turn. When everything is going as it should, simply randomise as you normally would in training. Note: Give releases as and when appropriate for your dog and his training level.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Erny

[shoemonster]

Abit OT, but if the club you might go back to wont let you use a chain, will they let you use a martingale with the chain bit on it? He will probably still relate this type of collar to working

[PAX]

If the club you go to is Canine Council affiliated they can not refuse use of a check chain when it's catered for in the rule book and instructors hand book?

I too would also not let the dog lean on you, I would move into his space and make him move, how rude....lol.

Dogs always learn, whether we teach them or not.

[Kaffy Magee]

Thank you for your replies everyone! I'll definitely teach him to focus, i totally forgot about teaching him that. I havent been to Obedience for quite some time so it slipped my mind. Hopefully it will help. I went out this morning and threw in lots of left about turns, i think it might work. I think he was getting the idea. He was still too close but not as close as he was, so with a bit more practice i think he'll be just fine. When he sat and leant he was nudged over which also improved next time he sat. Thank you!

I might try out a martingale collar on him and see how we go. I probably wont get back to my local obedience club for a while, infact i may even change clubs and travel to the next town to do it, see if theyre any better.

Weisnjac, i suspected as much