Country Dogs To City Dogs

[ahaze]

Hi all, long time no post! My two pups Rhythm & Blues are now almost 11 months old, and next week we're moving from 20 acres in the country to 1/4 acre in the city, with neighbours on all sides. This is going to require lots of training.

1. They don't get many visitors out here in the country, so they react to everything- kangaroos, cars and trucks going by, people, random noises in the paddock - particularly at night (currently they have a large dingo wire pen 15m x 3m, under cover, that they sleep in and spend the better part of the day in). If they see/hear something out in the paddock they're awake all night, Rhythm constantly pacing, woofing low, whining, growling and occasionally barking, Blues standing at attention and growling. Once or twice a night we may go out and tell them to go back to bed, get them to lay down, tell them they're good... then do it again 30 minutes later. Most times we ignore it and they stop after a while. It doesn't happen all that often, maybe once a week or every two weeks. But once they're in a suburban backyard I fear they'll be even more prone to this behaviour since everything will be new and different. We're renting the house in town, and keeping them indoors is out of the question according to the landlord. What is the best way to handle the behaviour I am anticipating? I am hoping I can enlist the new neighbours to come over and get acquainted with the dogs so they won't bark every time the neighbours are in their own back yards, but that won't help with EVERY other form of stimulus that'll wander by.

2. Even though our 20 acres is fenced with 3 string barbed wire, they can't be trusted to be "outside" unless they're on a lead. For this reason they're kept in the pen a good portion of the day, and taken out for regular walks around the property on leads. If they are outside off the lead, before long one will often take off at a dead run and the other invariably follows, much faster than my husband or I can ever hope to keep up. They'll go annoy the neighbours over the ridge, cross to a neighbouring property to eat cow manure, or run off to chase birds. Thankfully they've never run down to the paved road and tried to interact with cars and trucks going by, but I think that's only a matter of luck. Once they're in "run" mode they ignore every command - I think they know we aren't in touching distance so they can safely ignore us until we finally catch up (sometimes via car) and they start minding again. The rest of the time they're very well behaved and do the basics - sit, stay, come, shake, lay down - promptly and consistently. Is there a way to control this "run away" behaviour so they can be trusted when taken to a park, the beach, etc? It's no fun for any of us if they can't have a bit of fun and freedom.

Thanks in advance for any advice you might have!

Andi

[Erny]

By the sounds, you've got a fair amount of work to do. One of the first things I'd investigate is your leadership to your dogs - from the dogs' perspective. They are going to really need this from you especially given their impending move to a completely new environment and it is important you don't overlook this.

I'd also be making some trips in to more built up areas and work on incremental desensitisation. Assuming they didn't receive socialisation to things such as the noises heard in the suburbs; unfamiliar people; etc. etc. in their "critical period" they are unlikely to have these good experiences in their memory, to draw on. If they are overwhelmed to suburban/city noises and events, it might prove too much - hence some small but frequent visits would be a safer introduction to help avoid sensitisation.

Training for reliability (especially in recall) sounds like it needs some work as well. This is something you can start now, but as you can (and should) use a long line until the recalls are reliable under the common distractions that you will encounter, this is not something that must be established before your move - it can be ongoing after the move as well.

It is hard to know how easy or difficult it will be for your dogs to adapt as I don't have the privilage of knowing your dogs, their temperaments, etc. But I would recommend that all the desensitisation work you do be done incrementally (as it should be). It should be about your dogs only being faced with an intensity they can cope with - so you are looking for your dogs to NOT react, rather than pushing the intensity until they react.

I'd suggest it would do you well to get hold of a trainer/behaviourist who can show you what to do, how and when. A virtual book could be written here trying to cover all contingencies and tailor to your dogs. A trainer/behaviourist would be able to assess your dogs, read their body language and then show you what to do. You'll probably find this less daunting yourself, as to even read here you might be alarmed simply for the detail in the written word.

Yes - you've got work to do by the sounds of it. But it is not impossible and it might not even be too difficult (hard to tell without knowing your dogs). You've made a fantastic first step - and that's asking before you go. Although if the pups missed out on broad socialisation in the first 8-16 weeks of their lives, it means it's unlikely to be quite as easy as it might have been.

ETA: I often recommend to people when they move home to take their dogs for a good walk around the new environment before they do all else (like unpack etc.) I'd recommend this to you too, but it does also depend on how reactive they are to their new environment. This is where having a trainer/behaviourist who has met and assessed your dogs can be helpful.

ETA: It's even good to take your dogs for walks in and around their new environment before the move, so that when you get there for good, they are entering an environment that they are at least part way familiar with. Also, when you do arrive, please avoid 'sooking' to your dogs if they are appear worried. Reward confident behaviour. Ignore unconfident behaviour. Treat the move as 'matter of fact'. Be calm and be assertive.

ETA: It would probably do you well to join up with a Club in which you can engage your dogs in activities for mental and physical stimulation and a reputable obedience club to help coach you in teaching your dogs obedience and reliability in obedience. This will go towards mental stimulation as well.

Edited August 2, 2007 by Erny

[Poodle wrangler]

Obviously, the dogs are in for a shock.

Off leash parks and beaches can be a nightmare with stupid owners allowing their aggressive dogs with no recall off-leash. There are many threads on DOL about well- behaved, friendly dogs being attacked at off-leash areas. Often the attacker comes back and/or doesn't even get put back on leash. As you say, your dogs' recall is also a problem. I'm guessing they have no traffic sense, so that's a problem as many off leash areas aren't fully fenced.

It's much safer for your dogs to walk and exercise them on lead. How are they on a leash? You may need to start some training with them (if you haven't already). Training to walk on a loose leash is an advanced exercise.

How to train them to always come back? Why would they come back when it's so much fun? You have to attract them with something even more exciting (e.g. small piece of their favourite food) and keep practicing. They should be attached to a really long bit of rope, so that escape is not an option. Escaping for a run is a reward, so they learn the wrong thing if they're allowed to run off when you say, "Come". Start off with no distractions, working up to when they're highly distracted ("run" mode). Never call them to punish e.g. when they eventually come back from their run.

From what you've said, it looks like barking could also be problem. How do you plan to manage it? Dogs inside? Antibark collars? You don't want to get off side with neighbours immediately. I have a barking problem myself despite having well-exercised dogs and someone home much of the time .

Edited August 2, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[ahaze]

thanks both for your replies. The new place is an hour away, so walking the neighbourhood in the next three days (we move Monday) isn't feasible. They may have to acclimate to their new backyard and sleep in the laundry room on the first night (and hope the landlord doesn't come by for a visit!) and go for a big explore on leads on Tuesday. I will definitely be looking into a trainer or group or *something* I can get involved with to help.

Poodle wrangler, there is nothing they like as much as cow poo, so I think that's a losing battle! As for the barking, I think even keeping them in the laundry will be pushing my luck with the landlord, so inside on the polished wood floors is definitely a no go. Hopefully the laundry will be good enough at least to get them settled the first couple nights. I work from home so they're rarely alone, I'd rather train them "by hand" then resort to an antibark collar (not to mention the cost!!) but we'll see if it becomes necessary.

I'll definitely start working more on recall with them- an entirely enclosed large backyard that'll be a much better environment for training than on 20 acres. I'll also have a closer look at the leadership issue. I've got lots to learn, I see!

Thanks,

Andi

[Miranda]

It might be a good idea to crate train them and keep them inside at night, barking during the day may be ok if they don't do it all the time, but barking at night will probably drive your neighbours insane and before you know it you'll have the ranger round.

[Erny]

It might be a good idea to crate train them ...

Excellent thought, Miranda. This can prove a handy asset in many different circumstances and for many different reasons.

[Kavik]

I would also suggest crate training. Even if the landlord says no dogs inside, I have found from experience that most of them are reasonable about crating inside. I have a Kelpie X and a Kelpie, and I have them inside at night so they don't bark.

[Silak]

I guess you could consider walking over every inch of the property (so the dog can smell that you have been there) before you unload the dog so it is clear to the dog that it is your territory.

One of the most difficult things for some dogs is size of territory. coming from the country - other dogs had a large territory as did your dog. Depending on the temperament - some country dogs can really get upset walking down a street passing a dog inside a fence because they think they are within another dogs territory. Your dog may be used to its territory being larger than the average house block and in the country may expect that strange dogs have that degree of territory. When your dog goes into a backyard and the neighbours have dogs - it may see itself as encroaching on the other dogs territory and therefore feel at risk. Because its perception of territory size is larger than the size of your house block - there is no where it can go to feel safe from the neighbouring dog.

[Muttly]

I really would encourage crate training as well and keeping them in at night. Good luck with it all, maybe attending dog training a at good club and then some more to keep them happy?

BTW looked at their blog lovely

Edited August 2, 2007 by ARF Muttly

[ahaze]

Thanks for that- silak, I hadn't thought about the territory issue in that detail, but it makes sense- I will definitely make sure hubby and I walk all around the place before we bring the girls over. I'll also look into what crate options are available. Cheers!

[ahaze]

Thanks all for the suggestions- we did end up walking the entire lot to put our smell on it before we brought them in, and my husband even "marked" around the edges! We've now been in town almost a month, and they've gotten comfortable with their surroundings enough that they don't bark at every little noise (only did that for the first couple days) and they've gotten to know all the neighbours. There's even a rottweiler that lives at the back of us who they used to bark and freak out at but not anymore- they're more than happy to quietly sniff each other through the fence. Not sure what would happen if they met without a fence between them, though!!

They sleep in the laundry room, on the first night they both cried the whole time but they've been great ever since. In addition to their own toys, all sorts of cricket balls, hand balls and other toys keep "appearing" in our yard or they're digging them out of the leaf litter under the trees all around the edges of the lot - we find amazing amounts of stuff in there, old hangers, bottles, crisp wrappers, you name it. Sigh... they are also getting a lot of enjoyment from playing tug o war with big palm fronds that fall off the palm trees. There's no shortage of entertainment, but Blues has still managed to find time to dig a good sized hole right in front of the back steps. She likes it when I cover it up, gives her something to dig up again!!

We tried walking them around the neighbourhood once but it was just too stressful. Every other house it seems has dogs, many of them are small and very hyper and barky, and around the corner from here the people let their two dogs roam around free. As soon as we rounded the corner they started towards us barking, so we quickly turned the other way. They didn't follow. Not sure if that's something we'll try again- at least, not that direction!

We scoped out the local beach areas and found several that don't have "no dogs allowed" signs so I'm looking forward to introducing them to the ocean. I expect that will be a very photo worthy day

In the meantime, we're getting pretty settled: