amstaffchick Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 HI all....(cross posted from the general section as i was advised that id have more luck over here) Just wondered if anyone here has had any experience with these types of collars? Im seriously looking at getting something for one of my Amstaffs but i dont know anyone who has used them and i hate to purchase training aids like these without talking to ppl who have actually used them first.... My problem dog has taken to CONSTANT whinging when my bitches are in season...Ive tried everything...The girls are moved out of sight...Ive tried moving him further away but he gets louder ( he obviously is protesting the being alone as much as he is whinging to get to the girls in season)... Ive even tried bringing him inside but hes just at the windows constantly and im worried he will go thru one.... I have two males but only one makes this much fuss and just quietly its driving my nutting fuks lol.... So a few questions.... Do these collars work with whinging as well as actually barking? What sort of hit do they get? ie whats the voltage ( ive looked at a few collars and none seem to tell me the voltage, just says x amount levels of " stimulation" some collars say they work from whistles and vibrations...now whistles and vibration dont sound like much of a deterant to me ;) im leaning more towards the training collars with a remote control as i figure value for money will mean i can apply this collar for other uses should the need arise etc.... can anyone recommend these types of collars at all? Thanks in advance for any help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamuzz Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Think you already got good answers in the other forum. Be interested to hear what Steve from K9 has to say on the subject... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 (edited) Ok - breeding (or responses by entires to intact bitches) is not my forte - I have not had the experience of dealing with this type of problem where the cause of the vocalisation has been 'sexually' induced. Consequently I am unable to give you any reference to knowledge on successes, failures and the liklihood of either, nor whether the e-collar (or similar device) is the most appropriate behaviour training tool for this instance. im leaning more towards the training collars with a remote control as i figure value for money will mean i can apply this collar for other uses should the need arise etc.... An RT can be an excellent training tool as well as being able to assist in behavioural modification. But you should be mindful that you need to be there to be able to deliver the appropriate stimulation level whenever the dog exhibits the unwanted behaviour. Depending on your lifestyle and work commitments, this can often be impracticle if not impossible and as a result your dog might learn not to vocalise at certain times (eg when you are home) but not necessarily others (eg when you are not there). In addition to the above, a further problem can be created. IE Because the stimulation is not able to be delivered on a consistant schedule but is, rather, delivered on an intermittent schedule (ie irregularly) the treatment might serve to make the behaviour more difficult to improssible to eradicate. A bit like gambling addiction really - the addicted poker machine player doesn't quit as the result of many losses. To the contrary, the addicted gambler continues because occassionally there is a win. Whether an anti-bark collar or RT, I'd be warey of allowing your two dogs running together. Otherwise I can envisage a situation of your two dogs standing in proximity, your dog vocalising and receiving a stim and pairing your other dog as the cause of it. Or there is the possibility of the collar stimming the dog during 'play' vocalisation - add that to the excitement of play and it could result in aggression from one to the other. Amstaffchick : .Ive tried everything...The girls are moved out of sight...Ive tried moving him further away but he gets louder ( he obviously is protesting the being alone as much as he is whinging to get to the girls in season)...Ive even tried bringing him inside but hes just at the windows constantly and im worried he will go thru one.... Have you tried training your dog for an incompatable behaviour? Eg. Drop and drop/stay. Not to suggest the dog cannot vocalise whilst in this position, although intensity of the vocalisation may be impeded. And a dog in drop will not go through the window. I would expect a good quality level of training would be required to attain obedience in the face of inate sexual drive but the mental stimulation your continued and consistant training would provide can only benefit. Do these collars work with whinging as well as actually barking? The RT will work because they are not reliant on vibration or noise - the stimulation is delivered by you pushing the button on the remote. As to whether an anti-bark style collar would operate sufficiently would depend on the level of vibration your dog's throat creates when he is whining. I agree that K9 Force might have more knowledge via experience as once again, I've not had cause to utilise e-collar devices for 'whining'. What sort of hit do they get? ie whats the voltage ( ive looked at a few collars and none seem to tell me the voltage, just says x amount levels of " stimulation" This question is more easily answered by suggesting you consult with a behaviourist who (a) knows e-collars and (b) has one. This way the feel of the stimulation it delivers can be experienced (and no, there's nothing to be frightened of). There is a fair amount of writings regarding the 'electrical' component of the stimulation (found in Steven Lindsay's "Applied Dog Behaviour and Training" Volume 3) but it does go on a fair amount about the comparison of open circuits and closed circuits, voltage -vs- current etc. etc. Even if I wrote it out here, you would probably still be none the wiser for knowing what the dog feels when the stimulation is delivered. I will say this - the 'electrical' terminology is scarier than the delivery of an appropriate level of stim ;). ...some collars say they work from whistles and vibrations...now whistles and vibration dont sound like much of a deterant to me This would be the anti-bark type e-collar you speak of. Not the RT. Most anti-bark collars are activated by the vibration in the dog's throat, caused by the vocalisation (usually barking). The problem with others which might be activated by noise is that another noise in the proximate environment (eg. another dog barking) might be sufficient to activate the collar and the dog wearing it will receive the aversive - quite likely for not doing anything 'wrong'. There are other styles of "anti-bark" collars. There are those that provide an aversive stimulation by the spray of citronella every time the dog's vocalisation works to activate the collar. Neither K9 Force nor myself are particularly fond of these collars, but that's not to say they haven't done the trick for some. There is the JetAir collar - which shoots a strong jet of compressed air to the dog's chin/nose. In your case this might be sufficient for your dog, but check with K9 Force for his opinion also. As to which or what collar style is suitable for your dog (assuming this is the right mode of behavious modification treatment) would be your judgement call in the absence of a behaviourist assessing your dog's temperament. I hope some of this information is useful to you. It took me a lot longer than I anticipated to run through your questions. I'd recommend you read up on the operation of various e-collar and anti-bark collar styles - I think you've already been pointed in the direction of K9 Forces web-site page on the subject. ETA: Please excuse any spelling errors. It's late and I didn't spell-check before submitting the post. Edited July 31, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffchick Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Thanks Erny for taking the time to post such a lenghty reply lol... I am home ALL day everyday with my dogs ( hence why this whinging is driving me nuts lol)...So the correction can always be delivered when its needed ... I dont allow my two dogs to run together when i have a bitch in season and i feel this is whats adding to the whinging ( as the one making all the noise is a very social dog and i feel he has to suffer a double whamy when a bitch comes in season..) This collar would only be on the dog when a bitch is in season and as the dogs are seperated when this occurs i dont have to worry about misguided aggression when the correction is given....Im pretty sure he would learn fast, i have an electric fence set up and he only touched that once...im sure electricity is the amstaffs kryptonite lol..... Ive solved the night howling by bringing him inside, he settles fast at night and is thrilled to be getting all the attention....Ive just got to find a solution for the day... Ill await an email from k9.... Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I dont allow my two dogs to run together when i have a bitch in season and i feel this is whats adding to the whinging ( as the one making all the noise is a very social dog and i feel he has to suffer a double whamy when a bitch comes in season..) What's your dog's behaviour like when he is separated from the others even though there is no bitch in season? Wondering if this could possibly be a separation related behaviour (which is born in anxiety) rather than a 'sexually' related response. Is your dog ok being on his own? Have you trained for independence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I've tried an ultrasonic type collar with my barking dog and had some initial success, only to find he got used to it and it was ineffective. I borrowed it from a friend and the collar was expensive to buy and batteries expensive to replace (about $20). Collars are now cheaper. It often activated with NO barking e.g. dog would jump, play, run down stairs etc. and it would go off. I don't know if the anti-bark ecollars share this problem. Not an issue if you're home, I guess. Let us know how you get on ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I've tried an ultrasonic type collar with my barking dog and had some initial success, only to find he got used to it and it was ineffective. I borrowed it from a friend and the collar was expensive to buy and batteries expensive to replace (about $20). Collars are now cheaper. It often activated with NO barking e.g. dog would jump, play, run down stairs etc. and it would go off. I don't know if the anti-bark ecollars share this problem. Not an issue if you're home, I guess.Let us know how you get on ... I've got an anti-bark ecollar (bought from K9 Force) and its fantastic - I've never had an issue with it going off at the wrong time. Its rechargeable so batteries are no problem - just plug it in overnight every couple of days. My Mum has been using it alot on the GSD that lives with her, she runs around like a mad thing, jumps on gates etc etc and unless she barks, it doesn't go off. We have it set so it zaps her, but not too harshly - just so it makes it uncomfortable - so she'll usually bark once or twice when someone arrives and then stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted August 1, 2007 Share Posted August 1, 2007 I've tried an ultrasonic type collar with my barking dog and had some initial success, only to find he got used to it and it was ineffective. I borrowed it from a friend and the collar was expensive to buy and batteries expensive to replace (about $20). Collars are now cheaper. It often activated with NO barking e.g. dog would jump, play, run down stairs etc. and it would go off. I don't know if the anti-bark ecollars share this problem. Not an issue if you're home, I guess.Let us know how you get on ... I've got an anti-bark ecollar (bought from K9 Force) and its fantastic - I've never had an issue with it going off at the wrong time. Its rechargeable so batteries are no problem - just plug it in overnight every couple of days. My Mum has been using it alot on the GSD that lives with her, she runs around like a mad thing, jumps on gates etc etc and unless she barks, it doesn't go off. We have it set so it zaps her, but not too harshly - just so it makes it uncomfortable - so she'll usually bark once or twice when someone arrives and then stop. I'm considering an ecollar, too. My larger dog barked for a solid 30 minutes- until I got home- and you could hear him 500m away (no joke- I even measured it on google earth because I thought that couldn't be right ). I was really concerned about it going off at the wrong time. So, thanks . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffchick Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 Erny i did suggest that seperation might be the main issue on another forum..... He is a very social dog, and doesnt enjoy being on his own at all! Even when we are at shows he will make a MASSIVE song and dance everytime i leave his crate even when i have him covered, its very embarressing...he obviously suffers some seperation anxiety.... I have only done home based training for this issue...He is fine in a crate at home, i can leave him and go out of the house and he is fine, not a sound out of him...This problem only exsists when we are out in a strange place or if he is alone in one of my yards.....Guess he feel safe in my home. If he wasnt such a big energetic dog i would concider keeping him inside and crated whilst the girls were in season but thats not a practical solution for Him as i have 3 bitches so that would equate to a lot of time in a crate..Far too much time by my standards..... What other training can i do for independence? Im willing to give anything a shot..he is such a big smoocher and i dont like seeing him unhappy....He doesnt like seeing me unhappy at the noise either LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amstaffchick Posted August 1, 2007 Author Share Posted August 1, 2007 I've tried an ultrasonic type collar with my barking dog and had some initial success, only to find he got used to it and it was ineffective. Let us know how you get on ... This was an initial concern of mine also PW... Will let you know what i dig up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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