Low Drive Versus High Drive Dogs

[Vickie]

It is part of their breed characteristic, it is who they are. <snip> If I didn't want this, I would probably have another breed. It doesn't mean I wouldn't train the dog effectively, it just means I wouldn't need/want drive for it to fit into my lifestyle.

I think I can guess the answer but you know what they say about assuming! Vickie do you believe that high drive is the only way a BC should be (i.e. that you believe moderate is incorrect)?

I can't answer this as high drive is such a relative term depending on who is using it.

Most of the traits I listed earlier are what I believe a BC should have in terms of drive.

Biddability

Heart

Bounceback

Endurance

I don't want a dog that is constantly over the top high drive every minute of the day.

I want a dog that is giving 100% when I ask for it but not so much that they are blowing me off to satisfy their drive.

I want a dog who when exhausted will still be trying to give 100% mentally even if their body is slowing down.

I want a dog who after a bad experience will bounce right back like it never happened.

I want a dog who will work just as hard for me if I forget to take a toy or food to training.

Obviously I have a lot of other things I consider important in a BC...you already know what they are .

[Vickie]

Thinking about this more. The reason these traits are important is b/c these would be traits necessary for a useful dog working stock well. Since the BC (for me) is categorised first and foremost as a stockdog, I guess in a working sense, yes I would consider a dog moderate or low in the above may not be a good example of the breed (again for me).

[MolassesLass]

can't answer this as high drive is such a relative term depending on who is using it.

Most of the traits I listed earlier are what I believe a BC should have in terms of drive.

...

Thinking about this more. The reason these traits are important is b/c these would be traits necessary for a useful dog working stock well. Since the BC (for me) is categorised first and foremost as a stockdog, I guess in a working sense, yes I would consider a dog moderate or low in the above may not be a good example of the breed (again for me).

That confirms it, I don't understand the term "drive".

Obviously I have a lot of other things I consider important in a BC...you already know what they are .

Well, no, not really - that's why I asked. I do understand that you consider what I have and what I'm doing incorrect - and that's cool, I'm comfortable with what I do and that's all that matters to me.

[Vickie]

I do understand that you consider what I have and what I'm doing incorrect - and that's cool, I'm comfortable with what I do and that's all that matters to me.

So long as you don't consider it personal, it's cool with me too. I have plenty of friends who do things I don't believe are right with regard to breeding. And why do they care anyway? I am a nobody who doesn't even breed & who has found a philsophy I truly believe in. I don't think believing this is doing anyone any harm & every now & then it makes my day to convert someone...just as someone converted me.

[Lablover]

Hi, Country Joe, darling, um..........what is your interpretation of pack drive??? and how is this achieved, bonding when young, brushing, clear fair obedience? Peppa LOL???

My simple interpretation (I have never completed a dog training course) of pack drive is a pup that wants to be with you. There is prey drive but it is tempered with biddability. There is a natural inclination of the dog to check back, to show awareness of you. Steve Hall and I have discussed this in the past. Charlie Ball was of the same opinion. He told me 25 years ago get a friendly pup the breeding will take care of itself. It only took me 20 years to listen

Yes, Pepper has it. (and she is certainly no slouch in the field working) The breeding is there.

For how it is achieved, as I said I now look for the friendliest pup in the litter. then we should try to apply all the things you mention.

You have a great dog in Pepper. I saw that on the weekend. It is the first time I have really stood there and watched what that girl is really about.

I think she may be getting a bit overwhelmed in the pack.

I know you like the high drive and there is no doubt you have it in the boys.

My personal view is.

If Pepper was taken to some trials on her own, you would in very short order have a retrieving trial champion.

Wayne P.

Bit sad. On the last training run on Sunday, I noticed Peppa looked uncomfortable.By the time we had returned to our lodging, she would not place her BACK leg down. Off to a local country chiropractor the next morning. Stretched muscle treated. Advice - rest for 24 hours.

Returned from training, after leaving Peppa quiet in a crate yesterday. She would not put her right FRONT foot down.

On the way home today, dropped Peppa off at our trusted vet. Xrays taken of her foot (in case of fracture). Hip and lumbosacral spine radiographs performed for good measure. Front foot xrays clear. No grass seed puncture seen on examination. Spider bite???

Hips normal.

Slight disc space narrowing. Cortico-steriod injections.

Damm, a black cat must have passed, which I had not noticed, while making sure no snakes were about.

Miracle if she makes it to the national this year. Oh well, life goes on.

[Sonic]

Damn Julie, that is a bugger! How is she today?

[Lablover]

Thanks for your concern Sonic.

She is using her right back leg surprisingly well. Unfortunately she is still very sore and lame on her right front leg.

Gosh, I was more concerned about her back end and lumbosacral spine.

The toe has me beat. It is not fractured, which is a good thing. I checked with the property owner who feels grass seeds are not a problem yet. When I gently palpate her toe, she vocalises, very unusual for Peppa who being a labrador is fairly stoic.

Naturally when let outside she runs about like a looney, then quickly holds her paw off the ground.

Been reading about various spiders near the Murray River. I think I will stop as it is so worriesome with skin necrosis and the many other possible consequences.

She is travelling up with the other two tomorrow regardless, so I can keep an eagle eye on her. Wish I could do more today. CT scan, MRI lol lol. Tarot reader????????

[zenchel]

She is travelling up with the other two tomorrow regardless, so I can keep an eagle eye on her. Wish I could do more today. CT scan, MRI lol lol. Tarot reader????????

Barry Haywood!!!

Sylvia

[Lablover]

Thanks also Sylvia.

Do you suggest I see Barry, for her toe, which is either strained, infected or spider bitten?

While unpacking and repacking today, the thought entered my head, she may have injured her toe trying to escape from the confinement crate. After all she has been known to chew a roof liner or two!!!!!

[country joe]

Sorry to read about Pepper Julie.

Keeping my fingers crossed for her.

Regards

Wayne.

[Tangwyn]

My simple interpretation (I have never completed a dog training course) of pack drive is a pup that wants to be with you. There is prey drive but it is tempered with biddability. There is a natural inclination of the dog to check back, to show awareness of you.

Wayne P.

I agree with Wayne here. I think pack drive is largely either inherent in a pup or it isn't. I'm not sure if there are many ways to actually build pack drive in pups. I have seen pups who have had very little "bonding" time with people have very high pack drive and other pups that have heaps of work put into them that have very little pack drive. I think pack drive is directly related to the biddability or trainability or a pup and that's definitely what I'm looking for!

Lablover, I hope everything works out with Pepper!

[Lablover]

Thanks Wayne and Tangwyn,

Peppa's back and right rear leg symptoms are resolving well. The problem toe on her right foot also. Strange that two totally unrelated problems occurred within 24 hours. In hindsight, maybe just maybe if she had not injured her back, I would not have noticed her toe (vet thinks with her fast recovery infection from spike wound or nail bed infection) as quickly. Doubt it, as it was significant, and she would have been off to the vet fast regardless.

Our vet, feels she is looking as a starter for the national, heck, the way she is improving this weekend might be a goer also!!!! We will see, as day by day recovery is quite dramatic.