ness Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Somebody raised this question in an email to me the other day when I was going on about Ness being a low drive dog - quite frankly what got me thinking was they asked is she really and what makes her one? Having given this question a bit of thought I am not totally convinced that she is so was wondering what characteristics people consider a low drive dog and on the other hand what makes a dog high drive. Do you take into account the typical characteristics of any particular breed so what might be an average drive working breed might be a high drive compared to other breeds? Are dogs high drive at some things but not others - so can you have a high drive obedience dog but a low drive agility dog for example? Anybody got any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I heard that you're lacking drive so she is probably copying her owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) Hey I am trying to have a serious discussion here PAX . ETA Its not dog training drive I am lacking its PhD studying drive - two completely separate drives . Edited July 30, 2007 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) Sooo - maybe Ness is lacking the dog training drive but has oodles of PhD studying drive ! Edited July 30, 2007 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 God will you two give me a break this was a SERIOUS question and you are corrupting it with frivilty before its even started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Sooo - maybe Ness is lacking the dog training drive but has oodles of PhD studying drive ! What a brilliant idea Leo, I'll pay that one. All the gurus have Mondayitis so you're stuck with us, the frivilty girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) ROFL they must be. Hmm I know one of them is actually awake cos we already had a discussion regarding Ness's foot and the fact I am NOT to work her today no matter how much she whinges . Edited July 30, 2007 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Ok - i've been 'ordered' to answer seriously, and in doing so - I must say that I can only answer from my 2 (rather driven) dogs and observation Ok - to me there are really two components to drive. You could have a dog that is really driven by *everything* or a dog driven by rewards - either a particular type or many. My definition of a low drive dog is one that would give me headaches trying to train! It wouldn't have real motivation and drive toward food, toys or attention..... while you could try and bring this out to success of some degree and even perhaps get to competition level in whatever sport, you will never be able to truly harness that as the 'natural' drive to whatever you are trying to use is not there! For example - Leo is not a big tugger. You offer him a tug toy and he won't really take it. I've worked with him to get him to tug, but always after a run/stint in the ring, he doesn't really want it. We have gotten to the stage where he will eagerly tug before a run/ stint in the ring, but not after. So although I may be able to build up the drive for the tug, it would never be complete drive as it isn't something that he naturally wants. A high drive dog for me is one that pretty much sees the world as a big huge 'game'.... they tend to be fast, quick on their feet and keen about *everything* or perhaps one thing in particular. They would go to the ends of the earth for that one object.... say.... a tennis ball. They make training easier to a degree as you don't have to think about 'what' you are going to reward with but more, how are you going to harness it! That is the hardest bit IMO! To me - drive isn't driven by breed and I wouldn't seperate them like that. It is driven by how they see those rewards. And yes, I do think that a dog can be really driven about one thing, but couldn't give a flying toss about something else. From my somewhat limited experience - drive is something that you can 'build up' in a dog. Certain parts of a dogs temperament needs to be there already (biddable, speedy, active - whatever).... but in order to get the drive really working for you - it would be something that you have to 'harness' and 'train'.... with Kinta, and even Leo now, I spend some evenings just harnessing the drive and playing with the toys/ food etc to get them to really *want* their rewards - keep them high value etc. If they really want what I have to offer, the work they offer me is 10 x better. In a lower drive dog- I would do the same in terms of setting up training sessions - quality over quantity... make the dog 'want' to learn and 'ask' for it. So in saying that - I might break for a while and while we are training train only little bits and a 'good' session once a week max. I wouldn't drag them out every day to do the same training style - ie: heeling for obedience.... but we might do some form of training each day. To keep the drive up - I would reward often - the higher the dog gets in their obedience/ agility - the better the rewards are.... they drive for what they get at the end and not in between etc Gawd, I hope this was answering the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 ROFL they must be. Hmm I know one of them is actually awake cos we already had a discussion regarding Ness's foot and the fact I am NOT to work her today no matter how much she whinges . I thought that was me, not Leo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I think it depends what drive you are talking about. Are you talking about prey drive, food drive, a defence drive? A dog can be a high food drive dog but a low prey drive dog. There are dogs that have high play drive but not very high prey drive. They will tug with the owner in play but arent willing to be chasing a ball, as an example. I do imagine that you are talking about prey drive here. To me a dog that is willing to chase and capture an object is a high prey drive dog. low drive dog - is a dog that I would find very hard to motivate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) What drive are we talking about here? There are a few of them. ETA: A few exsamples are food drive, pack drive, prey drive. Am I safe to assume you are talking about food drive? Edited July 30, 2007 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I will have to think about this one. In the meantime, why do you think Ness is a low drive dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) I think it is food and prey drive/ play drive I don't think there would be any dog with such low drive about 'everything' though - would there?! ETA - from what you have told me and the vids I have seen - I wouldn't class her as a 'low drive dog'.... but she does sometimes turn that switch down really low from what you have told me Edited July 30, 2007 by leopuppy04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I don't think there would be any dog with such low drive about 'everything' though - would there?! Lifestock guarding breeds could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted July 30, 2007 Author Share Posted July 30, 2007 Interesting thoughts guys - hmm just to clarify this question wasn't addressed specifically at Ness but rather people's general views on what constitutes high drive/low drive about anything!!! what markers people use to suggest that a dog is one or the other or even middle of the road. The situation which was asked about in the email was specifically agility and it came out of the fact there was an advertised low drive session and alternatively a high drive session. I was just curious as to what defines the difference. I initially said low drive because she misses masters jumping times by a couple of seconds but I was reconsidering my answer after talking with a few people. Funnily enough Ness is very foody so would say she is high food drive and loves her obedience but is only a moderate speed agility dog. She has high prey drive when that prey is "trucks, boats, remote control planes, garbage trucks, the postie" or even around sheep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 I have a very limited experience with dog drive I can only say from my own experience with my two dogs. I high drive dog is basically eager to do stuff but it does not mean he needs to be fast. I consider Midge a really high drive dog, but she is not very fast. I was training her for frisbee competitions and at the beginning she was just a tad too slow to get there so I started running with her more (short fast intervals) and play chuckit much more. She got much faster really quickly. With agility (only from what I have been reading and mostly "Shaping success") even a very high drive dog can be slow but there are ways to increase the speed with each is the exercises. I think a low drive dog is a dog that is not interested in working with you (neither food, nor toys). It's a dog that is very very hard to train because you need first build up the drive and than use it as the reinforcement in training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyBeggs Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Mmm I seem to have a good mix of them... Anzac (7mo kelpie) is very high prey/play drive but low food drive Sarg (elderly lab) was always high food drive and low prey/play drive ........now he has high couch drive!!! Diesel (2yo bc) is low drive in both...but is a highly affectionate dog. Aniken.....still working out (only 10 days home) but seems he will be slightly food drive but is definately low on prey/play drive. And in having the mix I can say that the training is very different for all of them and I can see why they would have different training sessions for low and high drive dogs! Anzac I loose his attention after 30 sec or so....so training has to be fun and short and somehow involving play (just to get his interest). He is full on all the time! Its all about getting his focus! Aniken (and Sarg was) could have longer training sessions with food treats as the motivator (cheese and kabana....yummo). And more serious training....happy to do lots of healing (or turn inside out/upside down) if it means they get the yumba! For these two their food drive it is a lot less intense than Anzac's high prey/play drive but probably easier to focus and get results. Diesel isn't into either....and I would say is a very low drive dog....but will work for cuddles and affection, he seems to glow with just a pat on the head. He won't eat treats and he doesn't like to play.......in fact he withdraws and shuts down if you offer either! Nothing really gets him revved up and ready to go....so training is very different with him as his motivation comes from within. I find that often Diesel is intimidated by the higher drive dogs...especially the super driven dog Anzac. Keeping them seperated for training is ideal. He would not be able to work around a crazed kelpie racing around the agility course......but a more quiet setting and lots of people interaction and he is happy to do what is asked. Dunno if this is helped.....I guess its a matter of finding their motivator and what un-motivates them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) I don't think there would be any dog with such low drive about 'everything' though - would there?! Lifestock guarding breeds could be. For some yes this could be correct On there own in their own space they can be food motivated but mostly praise works best. (Actually very topical point of discussion at the moment as advising new owner that praise will work as the best training tool/reward for their pup over any toy or food) They are very pack orientated, high defence drive, low prey drive, low food drive,low play - a toy? oh big deal I'm going over to the far fence there could be something there of interest Edited July 30, 2007 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah L Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 (edited) Interesting thoughts guys - hmm just to clarify this question wasn't addressed specifically at Ness but rather people's general views on what constitutes high drive/low drive about anything!!! what markers people use to suggest that a dog is one or the other or even middle of the road. The situation which was asked about in the email was specifically agility and it came out of the fact there was an advertised low drive session and alternatively a high drive session. I was just curious as to what defines the difference. I initially said low drive because she misses masters jumping times by a couple of seconds but I was reconsidering my answer after talking with a few people. Funnily enough Ness is very foody so would say she is high food drive and loves her obedience but is only a moderate speed agility dog. She has high prey drive when that prey is "trucks, boats, remote control planes, garbage trucks, the postie" or even around sheep. Another angle to this is, maybe that the dogs drive depends on the person who has the dog and what they do with it. What I mean is a dogs natural drive and what the person wants the drive to be for anything these days depends on what it's environmental stimulus and it's learned behaviour is rather than letting the dog show it's natural talent in any drive, and then that person working to provide an outlet for it's natural drive. This may conflict with what the person wants from the dog and what the dog is good at. I know what I wanted to say, so I hope this makes sense. Edited July 30, 2007 by pinnacle dts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted July 30, 2007 Share Posted July 30, 2007 Is there such a thing as a no drive dog? Surely there is something that motivates the dog, only the owner hasnt found it..... Nova is a high food drive dog, would do backflips to get a favourite food but has a medium-low prey drive (except cats!). Pack is higher then prey but is still gets unreliable results. He is a fast agility and flyball (well as fast as he can be!) dog and depending on what mood he is in can be an excellent obedience dog! Darcy has a high prey drive, meduim-high food drive and medium-high pack drive. I can reward with pretty much everything and still get the same results. He is very good in obedience (helps being a mummys boy!) fairly fast in flyball and is very slow for his usual speed in agility. I would have thought that a low drive dog is one hard to get into any drive and high drive is one that goes into drive as soon as reward is seen or word is said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now