J... Posted July 21, 2007 Share Posted July 21, 2007 Pretty much as it states in the heading.... what style of contacts do you use on what size dog, and why did you choose to use that method? We have the basics of 2o2o, just starting to add it to the dogwalk and seesaw. Just wondering if maybe I'd be better using some other method but not sure which one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smisch Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi Feralpup Well the 2on 2off is the one I have heard most about but the other method I was learning for a while at another agility club was the touch spot method which was whenever the dog touched the "target" which was a plastic circle we told them touch and instantly rewarded or clicked if it was clicker work... its sounds kinda vauge but I never took to the method, 2 on 2 off is what I try and work on or even simply stopping is good enough! I'm still only a novice in all of this but were getting there majority of the time the dogs know that touch is to stop until they are told where to go next!!! hope that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted July 23, 2007 Author Share Posted July 23, 2007 Thanks Snoopys Jocks ;) I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible, and the 2o2o seems to be the simplest one. The reason I ask is that the A-frame 2o2o isn't going so well, she's occasionally missing the up contact as well as the down contact so I'm thinking a different method of contacts just for the Aframe. I think she's not that comfortable on it which doesn't help, but when you're limited to class time only it makes it difficult :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 This is the first time I have taught contacts, and we are also doing 2o2o. So far apart from on the flat I have tried on a homemade ramp (going down) and a ramp at training, so far so good. I don't go to classes often so we have not done anything on real sized equipment yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rastus_froggy Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I use the touch method with my dog who knows the touch command, with my new dog I am cheating which may end up being bad later on im not sure but I am putting food at the bottom of the obstical we are training so when she goes down I just say touch when she puts her nose to the ground. The food is not always there but she always puts her nose down to look for it and when she does it I give the command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I dont use 2o2o, and i dont like the way that its used for the Aframe it cant be good on the dogs shoulders. Generally, i taught them to run to a certain spot for contacts and praise/reward while they are on the contact not when they leave it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 she's occasionally missing the up contact as well as the down contact so I'm thinking a different method of contacts just for the Aframe. The up contact on the A Frame is not faulted, only the up contacts on dogwalk & seesaw. I use 2o2o on dogwalk and a moving contact on A Frame (dog runs it with a collected stride) but with my new boy I have just started to teach a true running contact on the A Frame where he runs it extended where possible as I want more speed. Don't know if I'll be able to do it as I have never taught a running to any of my dogs before and he has a very long stride but as Susan Garrett says ' if you train like you always train you get what you always get' and I feel it's time to raise the bar so to speak. Is there any one particular thing that is causing you problems on stopped A Frame? Have you backchained it on a lowered A Frame first, making sure that your dog rocks its weight back in the end position? Do you have a clear picture in your mind of what you want your 'ideal' performance to look like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayakita Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 Hi, is there only a certain type of dog that is allowed to do agility??? has anyone seen or heard of an Akita doing Agility at all?? Jayakita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I like running contacts but if I had a working dog I would definately consider 2on2off. Bella was taught the old fashioned way. We started training Tilly using a target and we allowed to do either method but had to decide what our objective was. I started training her 2 on 2 off but when running she just did perfect running contacts and has continued to do so. Funny thing about her too though is that you could never put food at the bottom of a contact or she would take a flying leap from the top. Once I took the food away she just went straight to the bottom of the contact, just goes to show different things for different dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Slightly OT for jayakita - Akitas certainly wouldn't be breed of choice for someone getting a dog for agility - but yes, they can do it. I haven't seen one in Oz, although I think there are some. Here's an American link I found in a quick web search - Akita agility link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) I use run to the contact zone and ride for see saw and run to zone and sit for dog walk I use 2o2o for the A-Frame. Edited July 24, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BittyMooPeeb Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Have you backchained it on a lowered A Frame first, making sure that your dog rocks its weight back in the end position? How do you teach this? Peebs still plummets down the A-frame nearly going head over heels (or crawls down at a snails pace!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t(AD)pole Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I use 2o2o contacts because I find its more reliable then just slowing the dog down over the contacts. I didn't use running contacts because I didn't have enough knowledge on how to teach this when I started training Abbie. I think, if taught properly then running contacts can be just as reliable. I originally taught Abbie to touch her nose on a small piece of wood then I placed it at the bottom of the obstacle and faded out. She doesn't do the nose touch any more because I have been lazy in reinforcing it but she still stops in the 2o2o pos. I dont use 2o2o, and i dont like the way that its used for the Aframe it cant be good on the dogs shoulders. If the dog is taught to put the weight on his rear then it will not put much stress on their shoulders. However, if not taught properly at 2o2o on the Aframe will be damaging to their shoulders. Have you backchained it on a lowered A Frame first, making sure that your dog rocks its weight back in the end position? How do you teach this? Peebs still plummets down the A-frame nearly going head over heels (or crawls down at a snails pace!) There is an article in this sample issue of Clean Run that talks a bit about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 The up contact on the A Frame is not faulted, only the up contacts on dogwalk & seesaw. Thats interesting - never knew that. When I got picked up for it in class one day I just presumed that was why Is there any one particular thing that is causing you problems on stopped A Frame?Have you backchained it on a lowered A Frame first, making sure that your dog rocks its weight back in the end position? Do you have a clear picture in your mind of what you want your 'ideal' performance to look like? Problem is that we get such limited time on an A-frame that its difficult to get much of a go on it (it comes out maybe once a month) and even more difficult to stuff around and adjust it because its not an adjustable A-frame. We've put it over a 44 gallon drum, and we can also place it over our 1m high fences - both too low to be really that useful. Admitedly we focus mostly on jumping in class but Darcy only has one pass to go before she gets her JD so I want to start on agility as well to start her in Novice. So Darcy isn't really confident on it, she tackles it okay going up, but instead of coming down it she jumps from about 2/3 up. I don't really want to put her back on it while she's doing this and expecting a 2o2o in these circumstances is just not on. What I would like it to look like is more of a running contact up (so running up it rather than jumping up it) and then dropping her weight back onto her hindend as she comes down the other side with confidence seeking the contact (no jumping off!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I dont use 2o2o, and i dont like the way that its used for the Aframe it cant be good on the dogs shoulders. If the dog is taught to put the weight on his rear then it will not put much stress on their shoulders. However, if not taught properly at 2o2o on the Aframe will be damaging to their shoulders. Yeah i know, but how many people would be teaching the correct way? I certainly will not ever recommend it too a newbie thats for sure JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 The up contact on the A Frame is not faulted, only the up contacts on dogwalk & seesaw. Thats interesting - never knew that. When I got picked up for it in class one day I just presumed that was why Depends on the agility code you are running. Some will fault missing the up contact. Non adjustable A frames stuffed up my Vizslas' 2o2o. Was going really well on training equipment and then the shock of going suddenly to full height saw them slow down a lot. And didn't give them a chance to learn to manage their centre of balance. Can you make something for home? Maybe not full length but something that you can work with the angles on? Even just a coming down would help. Recent Clean Run has an article or 2 on teaching running contacts. Not read it so don't know efficacy of method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 The up contact on the A Frame is not faulted, only the up contacts on dogwalk & seesaw. Thats interesting - never knew that. When I got picked up for it in class one day I just presumed that was why :rolleyes: Depends on the agility code you are running. Some will fault missing the up contact. I'm talking ANKC as I'm assuming that is what Feralpup is training for - we don't have ADAA in Victoria. Not sure what the rule is for NADAC as they change so often I can't keep up with it. ANKC Rule 9.13 (e) 'Clearly negotiate the scramble by climbing up and climbing down. The dog must place at least one foot or part of one foot in the contact area of the scramble on the way down.' Feralpup, generally to adjust the A Frame you just need longer lengths of chain. If that's not an option, what about using a 'contact hoop' at the bottom so your dog has to lower its head at the end and cannot jump off. The Ali Roukas article in July Clean Run has a clear picture of one - I am using her method with my young dog and my husband made me one in about 10 minutes. Or maybe you have a raised area at home (like a deck) where you could add a ramp for contact training? Stairs are great for 2o2o. It's really hard when you don't have access to equipment ,I know. When I trained my current trialling dog I had access to a full set of equipment except for an A Frame and although I am happy with his obstacle performance, the A Frame would be the thing I am the least happy with. I wouldn't be attempting to train a running contact with my young dog without access to it every day (this is why older dog has what I would call a moving contact rather than a running contact, he climbs up and down without stopping and at a reasonable speed but he is definitely not running as fast as he can on the down side(comes down collected) and relies on me to be close to parallel with him - something I want to eliminate with the young dog) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 KC thanks for the info. Yes I was referring to ANKC agility. I'm going to put the pressure on to get the A-frame changed when we start back in a few weeks - I refuse to compete in agility until I'm confident she's going to be safe on it, especially since she's still quite young (not yet 2 yo). We only need one more pass to get Darcy's JD and I was planning on switching over to Novice Agility but if we head into excellent jumping for a while its no biggie, probably prefer it anyway :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 25, 2007 Share Posted July 25, 2007 Or maybe you have a raised area at home (like a deck) where you could add a ramp for contact training? Stairs are great for 2o2o. This is what I am doing with Kaos at the moment :rolleyes: I have a board which I place over some stairs or a raised flower bed to make a ramp, and we practice contacts this way. Did some this evening, he is going well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted July 25, 2007 Author Share Posted July 25, 2007 Or maybe you have a raised area at home (like a deck) where you could add a ramp for contact training? Stairs are great for 2o2o. This is what I am doing with Kaos at the moment I have a board which I place over some stairs or a raised flower bed to make a ramp, and we practice contacts this way. Did some this evening, he is going well. I have a board that I use which I can put down the steps off the back deck that should work ok - will try it this weekend :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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