Dog Obediance & Muzzles

[RottnBullies]

I recently tried to take one of my girls to obediance training, I told them that my girl was DA especially to other female dogs,

and I wanted to use a muzzle, till I felt more comfortable with her behaviour and hopefully that she would get better as time progressed,

but I was not allowed to , one of the trainers said that It'll give her a bad image, I can understand that, but I'd rather be safe safe than sorry.

As It was I already had an off leash dog run towards us, and I literally Sh!t myself, but luckily managed to avoid anything happening.

I was very nervous and found It very uncomfortable being there, basically we just sat back at a distance and watched, but I don't think I'll be going back.

So Is this a normal policy of dog clubs not wanting dogs muzzled??

Thanks

[BC]

One club I am a member of told a guy he had to muzzel his dog as he took a chunk out of the instructors pants and left a puncture mark in his leg.

At the other club there is 1 dog that wears a muzzel, and she definately needs to, but there are also space jackets (give me space please) that the dogs with issues wear, so people know to keep their distance cos they could be frightened or aggressive etc. I would think the club would allow a muzzel if necessary for safety reasons. Just cos your dog does not like other females, does not mean you should be stopped from training her.

If I saw a dog with a muzzel I just would not stand as close, but I would not be put off by it.

[dogdude]

Hi RottenBullies

Is this a dog obedience club? Or is it a training centre?

If it is a club, then I would suggest that you talk to the club president. Do not take one instuctors word as gospel. If your dog does attack another, you will be the one held responsible. It is your dog, and you can do what you like (and should) concerning its managment.

I suggest that you remind them of that, and also that you are a paid up member!

Just remember that you will learn lots of things about dog training off lots of people. Not all of it will be good advice, so make up your own mind. Its your dog.

[Erny]

I recently tried to take one of my girls to obediance training, I told them that my girl was DA especially to other female dogs,

and I wanted to use a muzzle ... but I was not allowed to , one of the trainers said that It'll give her a bad image

:cool: Who is worried about "image" over "safety" ????? I think a worse image would be conjured in the event of an injurious event. In fact, if "image" is their concern then one that projects "responsibility" should be their priority.

I can understand that ....

Actually, I can't.

... but I'd rather be safe safe than sorry.

Dead right . IMO THAT is far more responsible than vanity concerns.

I was very nervous and found It very uncomfortable being there, basically we just sat back at a distance and watched, but I don't think I'll be going back.

Even if I felt that a dog did not require a muzzle, if the handler is really worried about this the dog will pick up on that tension. This escalates the potential for aggression - especially in a dog with known issues. For the sake of behaviour modification ALONE (let alone 'safety issues' as discussed) I would agree to the dog wearing a muzzle if this brought comfort to the handler.

Naturally, the muzzle should be a 'cage' type to allow the dog to breath and pant sufficiently.

Edited July 16, 2007 by Erny

[poodlefan]

Muzzling your dog makes you and everyone else relax. It also send the clearest possible signal to other handlers that your dog needs space.

"Image" problem.... :cool: If a dog is aggressive, it's aggressive. Prohibiting muzzling is for "image" reasons is downright irresponsible IMO.

Safety comes first - for everyone.

ETA: At our club handlers may use a muzzle and instructors may request a dog be muzzled. I've done it.

Edited July 16, 2007 by poodlefan

[Staranais]

As It was I already had an off leash dog run towards us, and I literally Sh!t myself, but luckily managed to avoid anything happening.

I was very nervous and found It very uncomfortable being there, basically we just sat back at a distance and watched, but I don't think I'll be going back.

So Is this a normal policy of dog clubs not wanting dogs muzzled??

As far as I'm aware, it's not a normal policy. All but one of the clubs I've attended have encouraged the students to use muzzles if we wished (the exception was one agility club, since they were worried about the dog's ability to breath while exercising in muzzles, which I guess was fair enough).

However, if this class has an environment where offleash dogs will run up to you, it's not somewhere that I would take an aggressive dog, regardless of their policy on muzzles.

When you're attempting to desensitise or retrain a dog aggressive dog, taking the dog to an uncontrolled environment is IMO the last thing you should do. When you are working with a dog aggressive dog, you generally don't want to put the dog in a position where she can't help but react to another dog aggressively, as this just reinforces the behaviour you are trying to extinguish or control. Plus if you put your dog in a situation where an uncontrolled dog can run up to her and confront her, then she could easily conclude that you can't (or won't) defend her - and that she better defend herself.

There are classes out there that do good work maintaining an atmosphere of safety for reactive dogs, where all dogs are under control, and you will be allowed to keep your distance and wear a muzzle - good luck finding one.

[bloss344]

Our club allows muzzles. There aren't many dog's who attend that are muzzled but there are a couple at the moment. I think that if it makes the difference between a dig being able to go to obedience or staying at home it's a good thing.

[cramet]

i have talked to some trainers about it

some dont want dogs to were muzzles because if they get attacked by another dog they can not protect them selves

its not done the image in there cases

but they also put it back onto the owner to make the choice for them self

Edited July 17, 2007 by cramet

[Akitaowner]

we had a dog that used to come muzzled - he was dog aggressive - we requested and owner was happy to oblige - he has come far enough not to need it anymore - but we make any new members aware to keep their distance - she is a responsible owner and i think you should always be allowed if its how you feel comfortable...

i can see the not fighting back point but fights shouldnt be getting to that point at an obedience class

[Mrsdog]

Our club allows muzzles and in some cases will ask for a dog to be muzzled.

It allows the owner to relax and concentrate on training the dog. I have been told time and again how much better they feel when their dog is muzzled. Mind you, it is not solving the problem, it is only making problem solving possible.

If people are making the effort to train their dog they deserve all the help they can get. If placing a muzzle on your dog means you can attend dog training and work on socialising your dog, then why wouldn't you do it?

Ours is a large dog training school and you will often see one or two dogs wearing a muzzle. Sure it sends out a signal to be careful around this dog, but isn't that also a good thing?

So RottnBullies go for the muzzle. If you feel better and more relaxed then so too will your dog.

We have a German Shepherd atm wearing a muzzle and he has improved sooooo much. Not quite ready to take the muzzle off but definitely getting there. This dog would jump and snap at people and dogs. His owner has done a wonderful job with him - big Shepherd, small female owner. Like they say "doesn't happen overnight but it WILL happen".

Good luck, be strong.

Noels.

[RottnBullies]

Thanks heaps for the input :p

but there are also space jackets (give me space please) that the dogs with issues wear, so people know to keep their distance cos they could be frightened or aggressive etc.

Yep, I've been reading on what some of the other clubs do with DA dogs, also a differant coloured lead would work, unfortunately this one I went to, doesn't have any of these things implemented.

Is this a dog obedience club? Or is it a training centre?

If it is a club, then I would suggest that you talk to the club president. Do not take one instuctors word as gospel. If your dog does attack another, you will be the one held responsible. It is your dog, and you can do what you like (and should) concerning its managment.

It's an obediance club, and It was my first time, so I haven't paid any membership yet, I was to decide on the day on wether I'd like to join, If I was happy with It all. Once I was told no muzzles, I wasn't comfortable pushing the issue, which I know I probably should of.

However, if this class has an environment where offleash dogs will run up to you, it's not somewhere that I would take an aggressive dog, regardless of their policy on muzzles.

Agree, really was not expecting that to happen

There are classes out there that do good work maintaining an atmosphere of safety for reactive dogs, where all dogs are under control, and you will be allowed to keep your distance and wear a muzzle - good luck finding one.

Thanks, I'm going to need It!

Ours is a large dog training school and you will often see one or two dogs wearing a muzzle. Sure it sends out a signal to be careful around this dog, but isn't that also a good thing?

Agreed, I need her to have her space and not have to worry every second about other dogs getting too close

Actually, I can't.

In a way to me It does give the dog a bad image, but It's because of my stance on BSL and how restricted breeds are made to wear them regardless of whether they need to or not, I am all for them when Its necessary, I hope that made sense ;) Seeing a muzzle on a dog that doesn't need It doesn't do the dog justice!

Like they say "doesn't happen overnight but it WILL happen".

Good luck, be strong.

Thanks for the encouragement

We will persist with home training, till something suitable is found

[rakaaz]

Lots of other good responses here RottnBullies, I'm amazed they wouldn't let you use one, and it probably tells you to keep looking for a better training venue to suit you and your dog.

If you dog is DA and wearing a muzzle, you can concentrate on training your dog, and relax knowing there will not be any physical damage; and other people can relax too. This still allows you to train your dog safely, thereby possibly working through the issue and you may get to the point where you may not need one.

I wonder how many people they have turned off with this attitude. you would think they would appreciate you being honest and sensible enough to want to do it.

Our local club also uses 2nd place ribbons (red) tied through the dogs collar to signal to people to give the dog space, and that works well too.

Good luck finding a good place to train.

[Mrsdog]

I like that idea of red ribbons tied on collar. Thanks, might use that one.

Noels.

[Tilly]

I had no trouble using a muzzle on our GSD at an obedience class I attended. It wasn't so much because I expected him to be trouble but I do know that he can get a little upset at dogs who get in his face. I thought it was better to be safe then sorry and it allowed me to concentrate on the class rather then having to constantly watch for possible dangers. As it was we were having a theory part of the class with him in a drop to my side when someone allowed their young dog to wander over (still on a lead but far to close to my boy) - despite being repeatedly been told to keep their dog close.

If you don't feel comfortable and they won't allow you to use a muzzle then I would seriously be looking elsewhere.

[Alpha]

I would've thought that the fact that you have taken the responsibility to A) decide to use a muzzle B) recognised and identified your dogs aggression and the triggers and C) have joined an obedience club which allows your dog to socialise in a controlled environment would've been enough for any instructor to see you know something and are taking steps towards what clubs are meant to help promote. I'm with others; put your case to the president or a letter to the training/instructors committee...alternative ( if feasible) find another club...they don't deserve responsible,and knowledgeable folk like you as members ;)