Bad Teenage Kelpie.......

[ShellyBeggs]

Hi everyone....

Its always been my preference to let my boys grow up a bit before they go get desexed....usually around 18mo.

however this weekend Anzac my 7mo kelpie has decided he wants to go wandering.....in the past when he has headed toward the gate or fenceline I have given a whistle and he has come straight back happy as larry.....this weekend he would turn and look at me and then keep going. He was nearly run over twice and followed a car 3km up the road.

He is also displaying other bad teenage behaviour........not sitting when told, not coming when called, not eating his meal, refusing treats, more destructive than ever, yanked so hard on the lead that he broke his leather collar (and almost my arm) and now a simple Arghhhh isn't enough to stop his naughty behaviour or thoughts of naughty behaviour..where before it was...I now have to get up and go to him to stop him climbing on tables/benches or up the wall unit.

He is getting plenty of exercise.....(even after a 2hr brisk walk he still came back full of naughty thoughts) and lots of interaction and attention of which he is choosing to ignore.....

so do I go against what I usually do and send him in for a snip snip......or try and ride out the naughty teenage behaviour????

any other thoughts on his sudden behaviour swing?

or another option is to lock him in a bedroom with the lights out and play loud heavy metal music and get him a tattoo and nose ring to go with his attitude

[leopuppy04]

or another option is to lock him in a bedroom with the lights out and play loud heavy metal music and get him a tattoo and nose ring to go with his attitude

Now THERE'S an Idea :cool:

I guess you could always try threatening.... LOL - I had such a hard time walking away and NOT laughing at this guy I met at the park - his 'teenage male' aggressed to another dog - when the owner got his dog back he proceeded to give him a lecture "Do you know where this behaviour will land you?! It will end up with you getting your balls chopped off - understand!!!!?!"

The dogs reaction was a classic - such a guilty look! Maybe that is what ANZAC needs :p

[jesomil]

I think you have just hit the naughty teenager phase .

Its a bit hard for anyone to say if you should give him the snip or not. It probably wont change his naughtiness. Desexing has so many pros and cons and it also depends on what you are planning on doing with the dog in the future, and what sort of a set up you have to stop him wandering etc.

I remember the teenage stage well :cool: My boy was a naughty monster who forgot all his training and was hard to live with. He then went through the hormonal phase where he was trying to exert his maleness . My husband threatened to snip him many times.

At 2, he has gone through all that and is back to being an easy to have around, good dog.

So i guess, the decision is up to you and your preferences.

[Kelpie-i]

My boy has just turned 17 months and is just starting to show the "bad boy" attitude...aaah fun and games. He's already had the snip though.

As Jesomil said, it is up to you whether you give him the snip however whichever way you go, make sure you are 100% happy with your decision.

[Lablover]

ShellyBeggs,

Sounds more like the dog needs more training also?

[MrsD]

Hi everyone....

Its always been my preference to let my boys grow up a bit before they go get desexed....usually around 18mo.

however this weekend Anzac my 7mo kelpie has decided he wants to go wandering.....in the past when he has headed toward the gate or fenceline I have given a whistle and he has come straight back happy as larry.....this weekend he would turn and look at me and then keep going. He was nearly run over twice and followed a car 3km up the road.

He is also displaying other bad teenage behaviour........not sitting when told, not coming when called, not eating his meal, refusing treats, more destructive than ever, yanked so hard on the lead that he broke his leather collar (and almost my arm) and now a simple Arghhhh isn't enough to stop his naughty behaviour or thoughts of naughty behaviour..where before it was...I now have to get up and go to him to stop him climbing on tables/benches or up the wall unit.

He is getting plenty of exercise.....(even after a 2hr brisk walk he still came back full of naughty thoughts) and lots of interaction and attention of which he is choosing to ignore.....

so do I go against what I usually do and send him in for a snip snip......or try and ride out the naughty teenage behaviour????

any other thoughts on his sudden behaviour swing?

or another option is to lock him in a bedroom with the lights out and play loud heavy metal music and get him a tattoo and nose ring to go with his attitude

Errr if he keeps wandering out of the gate & followed a car 3kms up the road wouldnt it be easier to make sure that your yard is dog proof so he can't get out?

Also, if he's anything like my kelpie & most other working dog breeds that I know, a 2 hr "brisk walk" wont even come close to curbing his enthusiasm, he needs some good off-leash running time plus some serious training to tire him out mentally. Start taking him to obedience or get him involved in some sort of dog sport (there are heaps of them around now) & do lots of exercises to strengthen your position as leader of the pack because at the moment it sounds like you are asking him to do things & he's refusing & getting away with it.

It may seem that on the surface if you desex him that will fix the problems, but Im not so sure.

Good luck!

[jesomil]

Also, if he's anything like my kelpie & most other working dog breeds that I know, a 2 hr "brisk walk" wont even come close to curbing his enthusiasm, he needs some good off-leash running time plus some serious training to tire him out mentally. Start taking him to obedience or get him involved in some sort of dog sport (there are heaps of them around now) & do lots of exercises to strengthen your position as leader of the pack because at the moment it sounds like you are asking him to do things & he's refusing & getting away with it.

Totally agree. Walking a young Kelpie will not tire him out at all. Free running is great but they also need to have their brain tired by work of some sort. You will probably find that you could run him for an hour and he will not be at all tired. Work him for an hour and he will be exhausted.

At this age he will naturally try and test you but you must always win and spend time traning him. He will settle down eventually.

[ShellyBeggs]

Errr if he keeps wandering out of the gate & followed a car 3kms up the road wouldnt it be easier to make sure that your yard is dog proof so he can't get out?

Also, if he's anything like my kelpie & most other working dog breeds that I know, a 2 hr "brisk walk" wont even come close to curbing his enthusiasm, he needs some good off-leash running time plus some serious training to tire him out mentally. Start taking him to obedience or get him involved in some sort of dog sport (there are heaps of them around now) & do lots of exercises to strengthen your position as leader of the pack because at the moment it sounds like you are asking him to do things & he's refusing & getting away with it.

It may seem that on the surface if you desex him that will fix the problems, but Im not so sure.

Good luck!

Thanks Mrs D and Jesomil.....Its a bit hard to dog proof farm fencing.....he can fit through the ringlock fencing and can slip under the gate.....I think I would almost need cyclone fencing all around and that is a bit ridiculously expensive and would upset the roos and wombats!

I also have 5 acres so he gets all day of free running on the weekend.....and with 2 others dogs to run with, 1 of which is a very speedy bc....and it was late on the weekend that he was looking to slip off. On the weekend he also swims in the dam with the other dogs for more than an hour or so.....even in this cold weather. I also did training with him for 30 min (then his attention wandered so it wasn't worth it), about an hour of ball flinging and he spent a few hours running up to bark at the trailbikes roaring past then runs back down (200m or so up the steep hill) and then a minute later back up to bark.....(we dont like the motorbikes and they would ride on the property if the dogs weren't there to bark)

We go to obedience but its only every second sunday.

If he cant be getting tired after 2 hr brisk walk and 10hour free running with all those activities.......what will tire him out???

I would love to get some sheep for him to work but I worry that the bc wouldn't leave them alone......

Also during the weekend I get home in the dark and he won't go out because the older dogs wont go out.....as he wants to be with them...so I am stuck playing for hours everynight with him. If I do put him out he just sits on the doorstep....and if I put them all out they all just sit on the doorstep. So on the weekends he really lets loose running outside.

Anyways.....as he sniffed the breeze everytime before disappearing I was thinking that maybe there is a bitch in heat somewhere and he is off to sow his manly oats??? although maybe a little young?? and hence the idea that the snip snip could be the answer.

I have been working more on leadership and the triangle......he seems to be back to his old good self, could be that he is inside and when outside there are too many temptations.

Grrrr teenagers!

[jesomil]

I also did training with him for 30 min (then his attention wandered so it wasn't worth it)

Thats because other things became more interesting to him. You should be the most exciting thing when training and only train for short periods like 15 - 20 mins at a burst because he is a pup. You may need to involve more toys or food into training to get him keen. Use whatever he loves most. If his attention is wandering, chances are you are not being very much fun.

If he cant be getting tired after 2 hr brisk walk and 10hour free running with all those activities.......what will tire him out???

I would love to get some sheep for him to work but I worry that the bc wouldn't leave them alone......

He still needs brain exercise. You can run and swim a Kelpie all day and they wont be tired....well maybe a little . If his brain is tired, he will be far less likely to get into trouble. Kelpies really need that brain work, especially when they are an active teenager.

I wouldnt recommend you get stock unless they can be securely fenced away from the dogs and you get lessons on how to introduce and teach your dog to work. If you let him loose on stock, he would probably chase and scatter them and have a whole heap of fun doing it.

Anyways.....as he sniffed the breeze everytime before disappearing I was thinking that maybe there is a bitch in heat somewhere and he is off to sow his manly oats??? although maybe a little young?? and hence the idea that the snip snip could be the answer.

I have been working more on leadership and the triangle......he seems to be back to his old good self, could be that he is inside and when outside there are too many temptations.

Grrrr teenagers!

I would think him a little young to be having those kind of thoughts, but you never know .

Glad he is being good now. Leadership is the most important aspect of his training. Dont worry, teenagerhood doesnt last forever .

[JulesP]

You really need to fix your fences so that your dog can't get out. Living on acreage is no excuse for not having secure dog fencing. It was the first thing I did when I moved onto a couple of acres. I wanted to know my dogs were safe and not bothering other people. When I got the pup I had to go around and fix under gates etc.

[MrsD]

I will reply - but it will just be a rehash of what jesomil & JulesP have said so I'll just make it bulletpoints

• living on acreage is no excuse for not having adequate fencing, I live on 2.5 acres & we have put up a separate yard around the house & had to put chickenwire on our farm wire fences & block under all the gates to keep our sheltie in.
  
• As jesomil has said, he needs more brain work & if he is losing interest in obedience training after such a short length of time he is bored, so teach him some new things & make them interesting
  
• And lastly, dont even consider sheep unless you can contain the dogs away from them & you get some lessons on how to work your dog on stock
  

[kelpiechick]

I would also be fixing that fencing pretty quick. It drives me crazy living in a rural area that I cannot walk my dogs around here because of having other dogs rush out at them nearly every time I pass a property. I have to put them in the car and drive them into town just to give them a walk.

Not sure how a kelpie can fit through a ringlock fence tho' ? Or is he getting under?

I am on 6 acres and there is no way I would want my kelpies to be able to leave the house paddock without me.

Can you have your gate rehung so that he can't fit under? That shouldn't be too expensive.

Our neighbour's boxer was constantly coming into our paddock and chasing goat & horses so we ended up getting some very cheap wire netting (similar to chicken wire) and attaching it to that fenceline, then secured the bottom with some strong tent pegs so he couldn't get under. Only a short term solution but it seems to have worked.

I agree that you alone have to decide on the desexing issue, but if you are not planning on breeding you might want to consider it. Both mine were 'done' at 7 months and the teenage stage wasn't too bad with either. (Although they had lots of mental stimulation and training as well)

Edited July 18, 2007 by kelpiechick