My Dog Wet His Crate

[deltron]

persephone: In think you are right re: him having us wrapped around his paw.

The dog wet his crate AGAIN last night at 3am after making a huge fuss when I woke up and turned on the central heating. Luckily, my OH dealt with it. He asked me if the dog can come into the bed and I told him it will only make the dog act up doubly as much the next time, so puppy stayed in his crate.

I'm almost certain now that the puppy is getting himself so worked up that he pees himself. SURELY he could have held on longer that 1.5 hours, so it must be that.

It makes sense, because when he meets a new person and gets excited, he wees himself too.

I think he loses the plot when he feels he is not the center of attention. I put him in his crate this morning while I was getting ready in the bathroom and he whined up until when I was near the crate, and then he was ok.

I think some serious tough love is in order. If he wees the crate tonight, then tough luck, he will be sleeping there until I clean it up in the morning.

And from now on, the crate is going to have to be the only soft place he can hang out. I'm taking away the beanbag he usually hangs out on in the living room, he can have it back when he is older.

He haas his 12 week vaccinations at the vet on Monday, so i'll ask the vet about his constant weeing then

One question: Why isn't he allowed to fall asleep on my lap? Is it so he associates sleep with his crate, or something else?

Optimus: Is the vinegar + biozet ok for wooden floors? Does it take away the urine scent so the dog doesn't go back to the same spot?

Edited July 11, 2007 by deltron

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

I keep reading your posts and just feel more sorry for you because I've been through it and can't believe I came out on the other side! haha.

Tough love is certainly the go, he needs to trust that he is being looked after and protected by the leader of your pack (i.e. you and your OH) and that he needn't worry about certain whings, because you're not worried about them!

I think I mentioned that Jak also weed in her crate/bedding. I never cleaned it until the next day. She soon stopped it, I guess she got sick of laying in her own urine??!! I would too lol.

Oh, Jak was the same with me moving away from her crate - she'd carry on and go ballistic until I moved closer or back into vision. She doesn't do that now. Maybe its a time = acceptance thing? Not sure on that one. It used to drive me crazy though so I can understand how you must be feeling :-( I felt like I couldn't do anything because she'd cry and carry on. In the end you either have to consciously decide to tough love it, or you crack the sh*&s and leave them anyway. The first ones probably better... lol.

I'm suspecting the lap comment might be so that he doesn't see himself as the dominant one and therefore leader of the pack? Same with sleeping in your bed, might see himself as an equal. I could be wrong lol.

I use white vinegar on my polished floor boards - it apparently eliminates the smell so that they don't pee in that spot again. I also wash the floors with it too but mine still pees. Hmm.

Oh, Jak peed alot too. My dad once commented that she was a peeing machine, but there was never anything wrong with her. Don't pups just pee alot?

[deltron]

Thanks everyone for your help.

It's very frustrating knowing what to do. One source of information will tell you one thing and another will tell you something completely different.

Everyone has thier opinion on what does and doesn't work. Something that works well for someone's dog is completely ineffective for another, but it's hard to differentiate between what will and won't work without trying everything. But if you do that, you confuse the dog. Basically, you can't win!

For instance, my puppy book told me to handle the dog a lot and give him lots of pats and cuddles, and spend all the time you can with them.

Well of course that's what I did, and now the puppy isn't happy unless it's being paid copius amounts of attention.

I feel like throwing the damn puppy book in the bin!!!!

I've only had Charlie for a short amount of time, so I'm sure we'll be able to reverse any bad habits pretty quickly. Just need to set a routine in stone.

It's hard to accept that a tiny little innocent looking thing is 'testing' us to see what he can get away with.

Since he will be in the crate a lot, how do I provide water for him, without him getting the bedding soaked? Or do I have to let him out to have access to his water bowl?

Rhi: I've just gone and read some of your posts and I feel sorry for you too! Terriers are hard headed little beasts! I keep telling my puppy that he's damn lucky that's he's cute otherwise there is no way I'd put up with his behaviour!

Edited July 11, 2007 by deltron

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

It is very confusing, for both you and Charlie because there really ARE so many differing opinions. You do ultimately just have to do what's best for you and Charlie, figuring out what that is though can often be the frustrating part.

I wish you all the best and if you ever feel like chatting about it please feel free to PM me :-)

Yeah I've certainly had a hard time of it, but it does get easier. Either they improve or you just get used to it. Not sure which!! haha.

[Dogsfevr]

Im not sure what your situation is regarding grass areas but if this was my pup i would be placing him onlead & going outside as many times possible during the day & night.

When he pees in the house are they small puddles??

Many pups & adults can suffer from UTI problems & it can be the cause of many toilet training issues as simply the pup cannot help itself as it cant hang on.You need to check this to rule out any medical reason for weeing so when you start being a tad tougher you now the pup medically is capable of holding on.

Also diet wise ,some products can affect dogs differently.For example if i drink a can of coke i can guarantee you i will be up 2-3 times during the night & countless times during the day,i avoid it like the plaque as it reaks havic with me.

So maybe give us an idea of what you puppys diet involves.

weeing when meeting guests can be a real issue.

Often the insecure kind or more inclined to wee as there not sure where they fit in.

Given this the way people greet the pup can enhance or minimize the issue.because the pup is cute everyone comes down to there level & go crazy in there greetings & then the pup wees everywhere .

The pup needs its confidience built up so when guest say hello ignore it until pup settles & then ask all guests to say hello simply.

"I think he loses the plot when he feels he is not the center of attention"

Sorta right but im more inclined to say he doesnt feel full trust yet so hes unsure whats expected

"It's hard to accept that a tiny little innocent looking thing is 'testing' us to see what he can get away with."

Sorta true agian hes actually relying on you to give him instructions & reassurance,trust & respect.

From the show ring point of view i have found some of the TT to be very nervous dogs so i would place alot of emphasis on ensuring pup is well socialized to the outside world & has good rules set at home,the most important thing is to take small steps that with each week achieve long term goals,patience now will achieve a happy life long pet.

Also depending on the size crate (if its big) maybe make the area smaller

[deltron]

When he pees in the house are they small puddles??

Sometimes they are small puddles and sometimes they are large. Somtimes yellow and sometimes clear.

But he has free access to water and has a sip quite a lot and the weeing seems to correlate with that.

I'd be suprised if it was anything medical. He is still young (11 weeks) and is a small guy. He is full of beans and very healthy.

Also diet wise ,some products can affect dogs differently.For example if i drink a can of coke i can guarantee you i will be up 2-3 times during the night & countless times during the day,i avoid it like the plaque as it reaks havic with me.

So maybe give us an idea of what you puppys diet involves.

His diet:

1 weebix with no lactose milk

Innova puppy kibble

Raw mince meat (Turkey or Beef or Roo) mixed with grated carrot and capsicum

Chicken neck or a lamb bone

Occasional:

teaspoon of yoghurt

piece of carrot or capsicum

bioled chicken and brown rice (only given once when he had a tummy upset)

Treats:

Beef/Pork liver treats or Roo Jerky

Edited July 11, 2007 by deltron

[persephone]

He doesn't need weetbix ..or the milk, really. there are lots of diet related threads on here..do a search, and have a look around. Dogs are predominately meat eaters..don't reallly need starchy grain foods...they can get some of this starch from veges in small quantities.

not using the treaty things...do they have any added salt?This may make him thirsty...drink more, pee more...

The reading of your posts also leads me to believe he is kept very warm!

Central heating..and the other heat sources...this can make him drink more/pee more, too.Can also keep him JUST on the wrong side of comfortable, too...just a thought.

you said..

"I'd be suprised if it was anything medical. He is still young (11 weeks) and is a small guy. He is full of beans and very healthy."

babies of ANY sort can pick up an infection, or have something not work correctly!!

Can we see a pic of this little monster?

Being young doesn't mean he won't get sick

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

Deltron,

I just remembered... I used to give Jak rawhide bones all the time until someone told me they would make her thirsty, which of course meant that she would pee more!

She only gets them occasionally now and I actually did notice a reduction in her peeing frequencies! So the salt thing might be an issue!!??

Hope this helps :-)

[deltron]

He doesn't need weetbix ..or the milk, really. there are lots of diet related threads on here..do a search, and have a look around. Dogs are predominately meat eaters..don't reallly need starchy grain foods...they can get some of this starch from veges in small quantities.

not using the treaty things...do they have any added salt?This may make him thirsty...drink more, pee more...

The reading of your posts also leads me to believe he is kept very warm!

Central heating..and the other heat sources...this can make him drink more/pee more, too.Can also keep him JUST on the wrong side of comfortable, too...just a thought.

you said..

"I'd be suprised if it was anything medical. He is still young (11 weeks) and is a small guy. He is full of beans and very healthy."

babies of ANY sort can pick up an infection, or have something not work correctly!!

Can we see a pic of this little monster?

Being young doesn't mean he won't get sick

The weetbix was what the breeder was feeding him. He doesn't eat much of it, maybe half. He's not huge on that or the kibble (which is available to him all day - and he grazes on it) but LOVES meat and wolfs it down.

The liver treats are these ones: http://cincottachemist.com.au/product_detail.php?crk=885665

He doesn't get much - just tiny crumbs of it for training.

This is the look you get before he tries to bite your nose.

This is the crate. It's not shown here - but it's been partitioned so he only has access to the front half.

More pics of charlie are here: http://www.dogster.com/dogs/566564

[persephone]

very cute boy!!

[deltron]

Deltron,

I just remembered... I used to give Jak rawhide bones all the time until someone told me they would make her thirsty, which of course meant that she would pee more!

She only gets them occasionally now and I actually did notice a reduction in her peeing frequencies! So the salt thing might be an issue!!??

Hope this helps :-)

HMMM perhaps the weetbix have salt? I guess i'll have to devise a different breakfast for him.

Haha slightly off topic I tried to give Charlie a pig's ear (which is incidentally far bigger than his whole head) and he HATES it!

He growls and barks and does 'crazy dog' zoomies whenever he touches it! Very entertaining.

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

OMG how beautiful!

[pie]

Haha slightly off topic I tried to give Charlie a pig's ear (which is incidentally far bigger than his whole head) and he HATES it!

He growls and barks and does 'crazy dog' zoomies whenever he touches it! Very entertaining.

Kyzer used to do this exact thing, he actually did eat the entire pig ear but it took him about three or four weeks LOL

When kyzer was little he used to get cold rather quickly, i guess when you're 2 kgs you don't hold much warmth, i guess you know this. They have hardly any coat so need to have warmth.

He didn't pee as often as you say charlie does though, maybe every hour or two in the beginning, now he can hold on for over 6 hours but takes himself out the dog door if he needs to go (don't worry, Charlie will get it eventually!).

Kyzer also had the nervous peeing when being greeted, but it didn't start until about 10 or 11 weeks. i started ignoring him when i got home, and he is much better now. He does it occasionally if someone is very loud and bends down over him when they greet him.

Stick with it Deltron, it is hard, but it will work out in the end

ETA: I find the little puppy kong works wonders, it's nice soft rubber, and i fill it with some barf patty and grated cheese, he goes nuts for it, it helps a ot when we leave him, he doesn't even notice us going. He's alone a lot of the day, and has no real issues so far.

Edited July 11, 2007 by amypie

[Dogsfevr]

Firstly i would address the feeding ,im not a believer in leaving food down it doesnt teach the dog when to eat .

I would start giving his dry & meat mixed ,if he leaves it pick it up & he gets it again for tea.

Your the leader so you set the eating rules not the pup."I'd be suprised if it was anything medical. He is still young (11 weeks) and is a small guy. He is full of beans and very healthy."

UTI infections dont make the dogs any less healthy.I have a dog that has battled the problem for 5 yrs,we also had a pup at 8 weeks with stones who still did all things normal we just new his wees where not right.

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

I've been told that about the food thing too, i.e. if they don't eat it then remove it, don't leave it for them. The reason the person gave was so that the dog recognised that you're the one providing the food (again with the leadership) and that they need to eat when you say it's time to eat (basically). I used to have dry food out for Jak for her to eat throughout the day, but I stopped that...

Now at 7am she goes and sits by the microwave waiting for her breakfast, and right on 6.30pm back she goes by the microwave waiting for her meal. Nothing is left behind.

Mind you, I've started cooking her food now and previously I was feeding her can food (yikes!). She would often leave it for a good half hour before even touching it. But the bowl was never licked clean like it is now!

I honestly didn't know how I'd get through the first couple of months. I've always had dogs, sure, but never a pup that I have been solely responsible for (and it's just her and I, no OH or kids to help out), so it used to get me down alot. I think I said in my other post, either your persistance and consistancy starts to pay off and they learn, or you get used to it haha. I remember that I ended up putting her in bed with me because I couldn't possibly go another night without sleep. Some people advise against it, others support it. Again, each to their own

How did he go with the chicken neck? The first time I gave Jak one she practically swallowed it whole, regurgitated it and then had another go. Freaked me out so I haven't given her one since hahahaha. She gets lots of bones though :-)

Honestly, it may seem like your situation "sucks" now (have you cried yet??), but stick with it.... It does get easier

[TessaBella]

Okay, first of all, how much access does he have to the house? You mentioned the hallway and the loungeroom (I think). This is far too much space for a puppy that isn't housetrained!!! Bella is 10 months old and she only just has access to the kitchen and loungeroom unsupervised. She started in the kitchen (all hard floors - no carpet) from the day we got her.

The crate is to be used when you can't watch him LIKE A HAWK and when it's sleep time or timeout (from kids, other dogs etc.)

The reason that he should not be allowed to fall asleep on your lap is because to a small breed this shows dominance. He doesn't see you as a leader if he can sleep in bed with you and on your lap.

Best of luck and any questions, just ask.

[deltron]

So my dad came around tonight and fixed my door, so now the dog can go outside whenever he likes, and so can I. :D

We let Charlie out of the laundry and he got excited to see my OH the he peed on the beanbag, which has happened sooo many times in the past so we decided the beanbag goes away for a while.

He has no toys now except the ones in his crate, and nowhere to lie but there either.

I put him in his crate and he had a big sook, but every time he got calm, I clicked using my clicker and gave him a treat.

Then I decided upon a smart idea - I gave him a block of frozen roo mince. He went NUTS for it and completely forgot he was in his crate for the 15 minutes it took for him to eat the mince. After that, I took him outside to pee, but no success (half an hour of standing in the rain!), so back in the crate he went.

At the moment he is curled up asleep in there.

He has only peed twice since we are home and it's nearly 9pm. I'm thinking that the constant peeing must have been him marking his territory, or weeing over spots he had weed on previously.

Water got taken away at 6pm.

Rhi: haven't cried yet, but have had some close calls. Luckily my OH has taken over when i'm about to snap. Hats off too you doing it all on your own. A single puppy parent would be damn hard work.

Amy: we have a tiny kong here but Charlie isn't that interested. He gives up on it pretty quickly. He much prefers ripping apart loo rolls :D

It's sad, but when we are at work, he just sleeps all day. Hardly plays at all. Has a drink, a wee, a whinge then back in the crate to sleep - then repeat. I'm hoping him the dog door will help as he can access the backyard which might entertain him better.

Tessa: We have an open plan unit, which is very small. The kitchen, lounge, hall and entry are all connected with no doors. The only rooms with doors are the bedrooms, bathroom and laundry. None of these rooms are much fun for us to hang out with him in as they are either too cold or carpeted.

During the day he has the laundry with a baby gate so he can see into the rest of the house, but not get at it. When we are home and playing with him - it's in the lounge and hence it's been really easy for him to sneak off because one of us is usually in the kitchen cooking, and Charlie likes going where the action is, and will travel between areas and can sneak off easily and he is very small and quiet.

EDIT: It's now 10:30pm and he's been asleep in his crate in the bedroom for half an hour. he whined a few times but stopped when we ignored him. going well so far!!

Edited July 11, 2007 by deltron

[The Spotted Devil]

Well done, deltron! Just remember....if you don't give in, your pup (eventually) will. Those first few weeks are the hardest....I had in-laws to stay too :D but we survived....just

[Optimus]

persephone: In think you are right re: him having us wrapped around his paw.

The dog wet his crate AGAIN last night at 3am after making a huge fuss when I woke up and turned on the central heating. Luckily, my OH dealt with it. He asked me if the dog can come into the bed and I told him it will only make the dog act up doubly as much the next time, so puppy stayed in his crate.

I'm almost certain now that the puppy is getting himself so worked up that he pees himself. SURELY he could have held on longer that 1.5 hours, so it must be that.

It makes sense, because when he meets a new person and gets excited, he wees himself too.

I think he loses the plot when he feels he is not the center of attention. I put him in his crate this morning while I was getting ready in the bathroom and he whined up until when I was near the crate, and then he was ok.

I think some serious tough love is in order. If he wees the crate tonight, then tough luck, he will be sleeping there until I clean it up in the morning.

And from now on, the crate is going to have to be the only soft place he can hang out. I'm taking away the beanbag he usually hangs out on in the living room, he can have it back when he is older.

He haas his 12 week vaccinations at the vet on Monday, so i'll ask the vet about his constant weeing then

One question: Why isn't he allowed to fall asleep on my lap? Is it so he associates sleep with his crate, or something else?

Optimus: Is the vinegar + biozet ok for wooden floors? Does it take away the urine scent so the dog doesn't go back to the same spot?

Hi Deltron, I read your last post - later than this one and I am glad he is sleeping. To answer your query, I dont have wooden floors so I am not sure if Biozet is OK. I have read on many places on this forum that vinegar is safe. Do a search on the forum for 'Biozet' 'wood floors'. There were lots of hits, I didnt paste any threads for you as there were lots of info. It removes the smell and dissolves the scent completely from carpets. My puppy doesnt return to the same place. Just goes somewhere new.

I had a similar experience to you when I first received my puppy. Can I just quickly ask whether his poo is healthy, as in firm can pick up without leaving a mess? If he is not eating, vomiting, weeing and pooing (poo OK sometimes and somtimes running and yellow) non-stop, it could be a stomach bug like giardia. The first two days when I had my puppy, I was a dishevelled mess on the floor, watching him like a hawk for peeing and he was nearly always quicker than me. Seriously, every 5-10mins! The more stressed I got, the more stressed he got - the more he peed. That's when I covered the floor with plastic and towels.

I worked out that what he needed to be touched and hugged, a lot because he ws distressed and also, that he had giardia. Gave him some Fagisyn (anti-biotic), cleared up his ill health and then we started making progress with the toilet training. He is best placed in the crate only when you need some space and at night. In the day, he will want to be touched, to bond with you. You're his pack leader now. If he is healthy and weeing after 2 weeks of being good, and if he is in his crate much of the time - then it does sound like nerves (when he sees new people) or attention seeking behaviour (he pees, you open crate amd clean). A night or two left to act up in his crate, somewhere where he cant see you will do him a world of good.

By the way, I find it helps to put puppy on a leash when taking to the puppy pad or outside to pee. Repeat your word (mine's 'hurry up') continuously. Without the leash, he may prefer to spend the time playing. The smells outside are distracting. Be on grass, it seems to be the surface they most like to pee on. On a leash, he knows you mean business. If Optimus doesnt want to pee, then he will stand or sit still and wait, looking at me. I hope these tips help. I find doing searches and reading info on this forum really helpful.

You've done the right thing with making his crate comfortable and removing the water bowl at night.

By the way, Charlie is adorable. I hope you get some sleep tonight. You sound like you could do with a vacation

Edited July 11, 2007 by Optimus

[deltron]

:D DRY CRATE!! :D

We put him in his crate in our bedroom to sleep at 9:30pm and took him to wee at 11pm when we were about to go to bed.

He cried a bit but then slept. We got woken up twice so he could go toilet - once at 3am and once at 5am. Pretty good going!

We started taking him outside on a leash last night and he seems to be doing fine with it. I think peeing outside is more natural for him as he has more space to sniff around and find a spot. Unfortunately we don't have any grass, but he seems fine with going on the paving or a garden bed.

I wrote up his daily routine and it's up on the fridge so my OH and I can remember what to do and when, so hopefully in a few days Charlie will be used to it.

Whoever suggested feeding him in his crate - great idea. I think he loves hanging out where he knows he will get a meal, and enjoys the stinkyness of bone residue on his bed! Dogs... :p

Optimus: His stool is pretty good. It's very dark and firm enough that it doesn't leave a mark when you pick it up. He had dihorrea once when I gave him an egg and it was the most worst smelling thing I have ever smelt in my entire life (he's never getting an egg again!!) but feeding him boiled checken and brown rice cleared it right up.

The peeing has stopped being so frequent. I think taking the water away helped.

Today is his first day with access to the backyard, and his first day wearing his little break-away cat collar. How exciting!