My Dog Wet His Crate

[deltron]

My puppy's crate training isn't going too well any more.

For the first 2 weeks he was perfect, would sleep all night and would hold his pee. Some nights though, he'll wake me up 4 or more times for a pee break.

Then, one night at about 2am he threw up in the crate and I was worried, so I let him sleep in the bed with us. BIG mistake.

Now, he goes to his crate happily at bedtime, but will wake up at about 2am and whine and whine. I take him to pee, and instead he will walk around and do anything BUT pee. He often sits there and looks at me, or will try and crawl up the leg of my pyjama pants.

When I put him back in the crate, he really starts making a performance, and will 'dig' at his bed and paw at the crate door, which is very noisy. I put my fingers through the crate (which is next to my bed) to calm him, which used to work, but it lately it doesn't help.

And then last night, he wet the crate. I think he must have done it right after I put him back in the crate after an unsuccessful trip to pee. There is no way I would have slept through his whining. It's almost as though he held in the pee on purpose

I washed all his wet blankets and cleaned the doggy bed... but is the crate training ruined now? Should I give up and let him sleep in the bed?

He doesn't wet our bed, but I feel he is struggling for dominance over me and my OH and I don't appreciate being 'played' by my puppy.

[bloss344]

Giving in and letting him sleep in your bed means he wins this time. What do you want, him to sleep in his crate or your bed?

Is your puppy nice and warm in his crate? Do you cover it to keep it dark and snug?

By putting your fingers in to soothe him you are in fact teaching him to make noise to get your attention. They are very clever.

Have you tried ear plugs?

How old is your puppy? 4 pee breaks a night seems an awful lot. Leah only ever needed one when she was 8-9 weeks old. I doubt your puppy held on to pee in the crate, might be worthwhile having the vet check a sample if the frequent pee continues especially as this is new.

[The Spotted Devil]

I don't think all is lost with your crate training but it may take a bit of undoing. When you have placed your fingers through the cage to "calm" him, you have actually rewarded him for his behaviour (not to mention the one night in your bed!) It is normal for a puppy to become anxious when separated from his family but they need to learn it is safe and ok to be snuggled up in his crate. My boy now prefers his crate to sleeping in the lounge room, especially if he is really, really tired. Crate training is really handy - I love being able to put my lad in there for a few hours during the day when I can't watch him or he is giving the cats a hard time Plus, I know he is safe.

I would first be teaching your puppy to toilet on command - I use 'quick, quick!' and have simply associated it with Ziggy toileting, and lots of praise (you can use a tasty treat of course). When teaching this, I made sure he could only access a small part of the garden which is rather dull - it therefore is better for him to toilet and get lots of praise. I now only have to stand on the back step (handy on a cold night) and send him off on his own.

I use an open crate in the laundry (covered with a blanket to keep it cosy) and never got up to take Zig out during the night. He had some newspaper on which to toilet, a soft lamp so he could find his way around and a radio to provide some soothing sounds. Any whining was completely ignored - I always make sure I get him up when he is quiet so he is rewarded for this (even if you practice during the day for a few minutes at first). Every single time Zig goes into his crate he gets his puppy Kong with a few puppy biscuits in it (from his ration) and last thing at night (10.30pm) he also gets a raw chicken neck to munch on. He is in bed by 7 or 8pm and when I get him up for that last toilet session, he is so flipping fast out the door and back again because he knows he will get his very high value treat to go to bed with. I only have to say "time for bye, byes!" and he bolts to the crate.

The most important thing in all this, no matter what approach you use, is CONSISTENCY! Otherwise your puppy will most definitely 'play' you - but they are not doing it on purpose, but because you allow them to. Good luck!

Edited July 10, 2007 by The Spotted Devil

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

I'm certainly no expert, but I don't think your crate training is ruined by any means. It's salvageable!

One thing I have learned is that you can't give in them because even by giving just an inch, they really do take a mile. If you attend to your pup when he's carrying on in his crate, he learns that by carrying on he gets your attention, and therefore wins :-)

I know how hard it is to ignore them, trust me, but they really do eventually learn that it's by being calm that lets them out of the crate, not digging and scratching at the door etc.

My pup used to pee in her bedding, which drove me crazy because everything I had read stated that dogs aren't meant to pee where they sleep. But mine did :-( She doesn't now though, which is good. I didn't do anything differently with her, apart from taking her out more frequently during the night.

You may just have to put up with the unbearable whining for a few nights in order to teach him. Ear plugs are great for this, and you will learn too the difference between him crying to be let out to pee and him just crying to be let out. It's a hard slog, but well worth it in the end.

I can now put mine in her crate and I don't hear a peep out of her when I first put her in. Like you though, I started to put her in bed with me and she started to sleep through the night, despite having a sheepskin blanket in her crate to snuggle up in and I also covered the crate with a blanket to help keep her warm. She now wakes up after about an hour or so and I put her in bed with me. My alarm wakes her in the morning and she seems most put out by it

Each to their own, just do what you feel comfortable with in terms of bedtime.

[deltron]

Giving in and letting him sleep in your bed means he wins this time. What do you want, him to sleep in his crate or your bed?

Is your puppy nice and warm in his crate? Do you cover it to keep it dark and snug?

By putting your fingers in to soothe him you are in fact teaching him to make noise to get your attention. They are very clever.

Have you tried ear plugs?

How old is your puppy? 4 pee breaks a night seems an awful lot. Leah only ever needed one when she was 8-9 weeks old. I doubt your puppy held on to pee in the crate, might be worthwhile having the vet check a sample if the frequent pee continues especially as this is new.

The puppy has a heated pet bed, and one of those microwaveable bags of wheat, and the crate is covered with towels to insulate it.

I put my fingers in to soothe him as that's what I read I should do in the puppy book I bought

My puppy is 11 weeks old as is a Tenterfield Terrier and is small - weighing 2kgs.

He would pee at LEAST 10+ times a day, it's not new, it's jsut what he has always done.

It's annoying as I take him to pee on his puppy pads every hour or so, and then sometimes he sneaks off right after peeing and then pees elsewhere - usually on the floor in the kitchen or hallway. It's not like he drinks excessively either. It's not involuntary peeing either, as he squats down to do it.

I don't think all is lost with your crate training but it may take a bit of undoing. When you have placed your fingers through the cage to "calm" him, you have actually rewarded him for his behaviour (not to mention the one night in your bed!) It is normal for a puppy to become anxious when separated from his family but they need to learn it is safe and ok to be snuggled up in his crate. My boy now prefers his crate to sleeping in the lounge room, especially if he is really, really tired. Crate training is really handy - I love being able to put my lad in there for a few hours during the day when I can't watch him or he is giving the cats a hard time Plus, I know he is safe.

I would first be teaching your puppy to toilet on command - I use 'quick, quick!' and have simply associated it with Ziggy toileting, and lots of praise (you can use a tasty treat of course). When teaching this, I made sure he could only access a small part of the garden which is rather dull - it therefore is better for him to toilet and get lots of praise. I now only have to stand on the back step (handy on a cold night) and send him off on his own.

I use an open crate in the laundry (covered with a blanket to keep it cosy) and never got up to take Zig out during the night. He had some newspaper on which to toilet, a soft lamp so he could find his way around and a radio to provide some soothing sounds. Any whining was completely ignored - I always make sure I get him up when he is quiet so he is rewarded for this (even if you practice during the day for a few minutes at first). Every single time Zig goes into his crate he gets his puppy Kong with a few puppy biscuits in it (from his ration) and last thing at night (10.30pm) he also gets a raw chicken neck to munch on. He is in bed by 7 or 8pm and when I get him up for that last toilet session, he is so flipping fast out the door and back again because he knows he will get his very high value treat to go to bed with. I only have to say "time for bye, byes!" and he bolts to the crate.

The most important thing in all this, no matter what approach you use, is CONSISTENCY! Otherwise your puppy will most definitely 'play' you - but they are not doing it on purpose, but because you allow them to. Good luck!

So, does your dog spend most of his time in his crate? And do you feed him in there? Mine only goes into his when we go to bed. Should I be putting him in there as soon as he falls asleep? He usually passes out on one of our laps at about 9.

He actually loved his crate from the get go - and happily sleeps in it (with the door open) in the laundry all day while I'm at work. I think he would just prefer to sleep in the bed with us.

Toileting is on puppy pads in the laundry at the moment while our back door gets fixed. I say 'go wees' and 75% of the time, he does it on command, and he gets a few tiny pieces of beef liver treat for it if it's on the puppy pads.

I'm certainly no expert, but I don't think your crate training is ruined by any means. It's salvageable!

One thing I have learned is that you can't give in them because even by giving just an inch, they really do take a mile. If you attend to your pup when he's carrying on in his crate, he learns that by carrying on he gets your attention, and therefore wins :-)

I know how hard it is to ignore them, trust me, but they really do eventually learn that it's by being calm that lets them out of the crate, not digging and scratching at the door etc.

My pup used to pee in her bedding, which drove me crazy because everything I had read stated that dogs aren't meant to pee where they sleep. But mine did :-( She doesn't now though, which is good. I didn't do anything differently with her, apart from taking her out more frequently during the night.

You may just have to put up with the unbearable whining for a few nights in order to teach him. Ear plugs are great for this, and you will learn too the difference between him crying to be let out to pee and him just crying to be let out. It's a hard slog, but well worth it in the end.

I can now put mine in her crate and I don't hear a peep out of her when I first put her in. Like you though, I started to put her in bed with me and she started to sleep through the night, despite having a sheepskin blanket in her crate to snuggle up in and I also covered the crate with a blanket to help keep her warm. She now wakes up after about an hour or so and I put her in bed with me. My alarm wakes her in the morning and she seems most put out by it

Each to their own, just do what you feel comfortable with in terms of bedtime.

Funny thing is, i've been sleeping with earplugs in for about 5 years due to a snoring OH and only stopped when I got the pup so I could hear him if he whines to go to the toilet. Between the snoring OH and the whining puppy, i'm suffering from extreme sleep deprivation at the moment.

[The Spotted Devil]

Just responding to your specific questions....

I'm home a fair bit (studying for Uni) so Ziggy is with me in the house during the day. If I can't supervise him or need to go to Uni or out he goes in his crate - I always make sure he has 2 hours of activity (could include some training around the house or a short free run or a brief walk or hide/seek toys) before going in his crate, even if that means getting up at 5am if I have an early lecture. I also made sure he had some good "quiet time" before bed...and enforced the "3 yawn" rule....3 yawns and he's off to bed If I waited until he was asleep before putting him to bed, it would only disturb him and cause whining. Zig gets a snack to go to bed with but has his 2 main meals in a treat ball. The puppy Kong helped because he was often too tired to eat it when he went to bed but it was something to nibble on if he woke up.

BTW, with regards to house training, Zig 'got it' relatively quickly - no puppy pads used at all - but every 30 minutes (for the first few days) and then every hour (plus after a snooze, eating or play) I'd take him outside to toilet. It does take time, though, and at 8 months of age, I can finally say that Ziggy is 100% reliable and whines now if he needs to go out. I think he had his last 'accident' at 6 months but that was our fault for not taking him out after a big play time. At 11 weeks, you've got a real baby still - be consistent, loads of praise for appropriate toileting, ignore the rest (if you're feeling annoyed with puppy, calmly remove him from the room while you clean up so he doesn't sense your frustration - it can make it worse) and enjoy him being a puppy - it doesn't last forever, although it can feel like it when you're trying to manage them!!!

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

I know how you feel being sleep deprived Deltron, and it can make your reactions different too, and you can be frustrated with something that otherwise wouldn't frustrate you.

I don't think I got a "good" nights sleep until Jak was 3 months old. Grrr haha. I brought her home at 6.5 weeks so a good nights sleep was certainly a long time coming! I used to get real snappy and annoyed and in actual fact hated having her there for a little while. I call it my post natal puppy syndrome. But they get through it, and thankfully we do too :-) When sleep did eventually come I was able to enjoy the little things with her again. She still has her moments, but she makes me laugh more than cry now... Always a good thing! haha.

I haven't got any advice on house training because mine still isn't. Without getting right into it and boring you, my living situation hasn't enabled a consistent approach to house training and as a result she still has (many) accidents.

I was initially putting newspaper down for her and then one day bought a fluffy mat for her to lay on in the lounge. Well she decided that that's where she'd like to pee! It's ALOT easier to clean up than soggy newspaper and she has decided on her "spot" of her own accord. I am about to embark upon the transition for her to pee outside, fingers crossed!

Jak only uses her crate to sleep in now... I used to leave it out in the lounge for her during the day but she now has a little bed to lay in if she is wanting a nap (she seems to prefer the couch though). So yeah, she only goes in there when it's time for bed. I think I said in my first post that I don't hear a peep out of her now.

All the best with it - it will all be worth it in the end :-)

[Optimus]

Deltron, try putting an item of your clothing and a hot water bottle inside. Even a clock too for the sound of a heartbeat. Mine would whine too, but only for about 10 mins in the first week.

Edited July 10, 2007 by Optimus

[deltron]

I know how you feel being sleep deprived Deltron, and it can make your reactions different too, and you can be frustrated with something that otherwise wouldn't frustrate you.

I don't think I got a "good" nights sleep until Jak was 3 months old. Grrr haha. I brought her home at 6.5 weeks so a good nights sleep was certainly a long time coming! I used to get real snappy and annoyed and in actual fact hated having her there for a little while. I call it my post natal puppy syndrome. But they get through it, and thankfully we do too :-) When sleep did eventually come I was able to enjoy the little things with her again. She still has her moments, but she makes me laugh more than cry now... Always a good thing! haha.

I haven't got any advice on house training because mine still isn't. Without getting right into it and boring you, my living situation hasn't enabled a consistent approach to house training and as a result she still has (many) accidents.

I was initially putting newspaper down for her and then one day bought a fluffy mat for her to lay on in the lounge. Well she decided that that's where she'd like to pee! It's ALOT easier to clean up than soggy newspaper and she has decided on her "spot" of her own accord. I am about to embark upon the transition for her to pee outside, fingers crossed!

Jak only uses her crate to sleep in now... I used to leave it out in the lounge for her during the day but she now has a little bed to lay in if she is wanting a nap (she seems to prefer the couch though). So yeah, she only goes in there when it's time for bed. I think I said in my first post that I don't hear a peep out of her now.

All the best with it - it will all be worth it in the end :-)

Thanks

It's nice to know that my dog isn't the only frustrating puppy in the world!

I can't wait until my door is fixed so Charlie can go outside to pee. He seems to really love being outside so hopefully the peeing outside will seem 'right' to him.

Deltron, try putting an item of your clothing and a hot water bottle inside. Even a clock too for the sound of a heartbeat. Mine would whine too, but only for about 10 mins in the first week.

Oh, smart idea - i'll definitely do that.

Edited July 10, 2007 by deltron

[tryamartimmy]

Those of you who have managed it in a week- my hat goes off to you. My pup took around 4 weeks to settle into her bedtime routine completely without whinging when left alone. This included me leaving her a radio playing softly, a snuggle puppy toy complete with heartbeat, comfy bedding and a few hidden treats/stuffed kong to keep her occupied. I only started seeing success in my second week (I think), so all I can say is persevere with it and go get those earplugs back.

Also, if you've got a hot water bottle, these work wonders- I think that was the key to my pup actually settling down at night.

I hope all goes well for you!

[Teebs]

Ok, first of all, there is no such thing as an unsuccessful toliet break, you stay out there till the dog goes, i once stood out in the cold for an hour for Atlas to pee when he was a puppy. Do not pay attention to the dog at all, put him out, stand up, fold your arms up and ignore the pup, when it pees, praise and back into bed.

Water, how much is the dog drinking? Might be an idea to remove it a few hours before bed time.

I am one of those crazy dog owners, when i got both my dogs i did 2 hour toilet breaks.

I would take them out before bed time, crate them, set the alarm for 2 hours, when it went off, i would take pup outside and wait till they went to the look, inside and into crate (NO PLAYING!) i did that for a week, then changed it to 3 hours. When they were holding on for 4 hours instead of getting up when the alarm went, i would lay awake and wait to hear puppy moving, the second the pup was awake, it was outside, until one day, they slept through the night!

when they cried I would also take them outside, they finally learnt that crying means toilet break, i would take them out and stand with them till they peed, they learnt that it got them nothing, and they were put back in the crate the second we came in side.

IF they had just been to the loo, and they were crying, i would ignore them, i know, it can be annoying, but touching or talking to your dog gives them what they want - They are very good at training us

Your dog crate may be too hot, there is no way mine would sleep with 2 heat things in with them.

Best of luck, and DON'T give up!

[Tahini]

Ok, first of all, there is no such thing as an unsuccessful toliet break, you stay out there till the dog goes, i once stood out in the cold for an hour for Atlas to pee when he was a puppy. Do not pay attention to the dog at all, put him out, stand up, fold your arms up and ignore the pup, when it pees, praise and back into bed.

Water, how much is the dog drinking? Might be an idea to remove it a few hours before bed time.

I am one of those crazy dog owners, when i got both my dogs i did 2 hour toilet breaks.

I would take them out before bed time, crate them, set the alarm for 2 hours, when it went off, i would take pup outside and wait till they went to the look, inside and into crate (NO PLAYING!) i did that for a week, then changed it to 3 hours. When they were holding on for 4 hours instead of getting up when the alarm went, i would lay awake and wait to hear puppy moving, the second the pup was awake, it was outside, until one day, they slept through the night!

when they cried I would also take them outside, they finally learnt that crying means toilet break, i would take them out and stand with them till they peed, they learnt that it got them nothing, and they were put back in the crate the second we came in side.

IF they had just been to the loo, and they were crying, i would ignore them, i know, it can be annoying, but touching or talking to your dog gives them what they want - They are very good at training us

Your dog crate may be too hot, there is no way mine would sleep with 2 heat things in with them.

Best of luck, and DON'T give up!

I agree with TB!

-Nemo

Edited July 10, 2007 by Finding Nemo

[Missy]

Water, how much is the dog drinking? Might be an idea to remove it a few hours before bed time.

Best of luck, and DON'T give up!

Just to add a bit further, I stop feeding and drinking around 4pm.

It took my guys a good month or so but my expectations were very low as this was the first time I used the crate for training. I didn't put a time limit on when they should be crate trained either. I did the midnight dash thing for about a month.

I had to really train myself not to give in to those big puppy eyes and that wittle puppy cry.

Best wishes and as TB says DON'T give up!

[Teebs]

I used to stop water at 6pm, but now they are good, Atlas wont go at night and Kaos will wake me up if need out - so they have access to water all day now

[Dogsfevr]

Prior to the door being fixed did puppy go outside at night for pees or from day one to the laundry on the pee pads??

[deltron]

Prior to the door being fixed did puppy go outside at night for pees or from day one to the laundry on the pee pads??

From day one on the pee pads in the laundry at the closest point to where the dog door will be once it's working (the dog door is installed in the wooden door but the security door needs a hole to be put in it so Charlie can use the dog door)

I figured that having him pee closest to where I want him to in the long term might help.

Once the door is working properly, i'm going to start taking him outside to pee, and then hopefully one day he'll start taking himself outside to pee.

I've taken up his water and finished feeding at 9 tonight so I'm going to see if I can get a decent pee out of him before crating so he'll sleep through until morning.

It's frustrating... when i'm home I take him to pee on his pads at least once an hour but he still pees on the floors. I estimate he has peed on the floor at least 10 times today, and only about 6 times on his puppy pads. I KNOW he can hold his pee all night, he's done it before, so why does he seem to not be able to hold it at all while awake??

To prevent this, should I crate him whenever I am not actively paying attention to him?

Edited July 10, 2007 by deltron

[Teebs]

To prevent this, should I crate him whenever I am not actively paying attention to him?

Yes, you have a new puppy, who is not toilet trained, you should be watching him ALL the time! if you can not watch him, he should be in a safe place.

I never had one accident with Atlas, he was ALWAYS being watched when out of his crate, and when in he was out every few hours to pee. The second the dog starts sniffing the ground, spinning around Take him outside!

[deltron]

Currently writing this at 1:15am to the sound of dog screaming and destruction of flooring coming from the laundry. He's screamed for 45 minutes straight.

Tonight I stopped water and food at 9 and took the dog to sleep in his crate at 10. Only one source of heat this time, and with freshly laundered blankets that were pee-free.

Put up with the whining and scratching for 10 minutes and he eventually worse himself out and went to sleep.

At 12:30 am he woke up and started to whine for dear life. He had wet the crate. I took him to wee and watched him do circles for 15 minutes with no luck, and left him to scream himself senseless so I could hand wash his pet bed cover and wipe down his mattress,

Now i'm off to dry the mattress and with the hairdryer and put the dog... i mean TAKE the dog to sleep. The OH has managed to sleep through the entire thing!!

Edited July 11, 2007 by deltron

[persephone]

Hi..

a couple of things.. you said eh was fine at first....

has the pup been vet checked to rule out an infection/mechanical cause for all this peeing?

You have a little terrier boy

please don't carry him around, or have him fall asleep on your lap

He will take this as a signal that he can wrap you around his little spotted paw !

Sorry you are havin so little sleep..

He has also learnt that when he wets in the crate ,mum gives it and him lots of attention!

Please get him vet checked first , THEN work on the behaviour.

puppies are like us..we go to the loo much more during the day than when we are asleep..when awake, the kidneys work harder...simple.

Puppies have very little conscious control, and little bladders, so need to empty it 'NOW"

[Optimus]

Ok, first of all, there is no such thing as an unsuccessful toliet break, you stay out there till the dog goes, i once stood out in the cold for an hour for Atlas to pee when he was a puppy. Do not pay attention to the dog at all, put him out, stand up, fold your arms up and ignore the pup, when it pees, praise and back into bed.

Water, how much is the dog drinking? Might be an idea to remove it a few hours before bed time.

I am one of those crazy dog owners, when i got both my dogs i did 2 hour toilet breaks.

I would take them out before bed time, crate them, set the alarm for 2 hours, when it went off, i would take pup outside and wait till they went to the look, inside and into crate (NO PLAYING!) i did that for a week, then changed it to 3 hours. When they were holding on for 4 hours instead of getting up when the alarm went, i would lay awake and wait to hear puppy moving, the second the pup was awake, it was outside, until one day, they slept through the night!

when they cried I would also take them outside, they finally learnt that crying means toilet break, i would take them out and stand with them till they peed, they learnt that it got them nothing, and they were put back in the crate the second we came in side.

IF they had just been to the loo, and they were crying, i would ignore them, i know, it can be annoying, but touching or talking to your dog gives them what they want - They are very good at training us

Your dog crate may be too hot, there is no way mine would sleep with 2 heat things in with them.

Best of luck, and DON'T give up!

I agree with Terrorbull, especially the too hot part. The hot water bottle is better down the side of the crate. I used a doggy basinet in the bathroom and found that he stopped weeing on the wee pad in the night after less than a week (no water bowl inside!). He treated the whole bathroom like a giant crate. I think locking them away helps teach them whose boss. I use crate training in the car. He has only weed once. Just increasing durations of time between car stops, with play and wee stops in between. Optimus is a regular Houdini. Manages to get out of soft crate by moving the zip on the inside uless it's locked. I thought he was going to pass out from trying to destroy the crate in the first week when I used it in the house. Acted like a ferrel animal. It may be a breed thing with my dog, hates being away from owner. Once I was assured there would be no 'accidents' at night, a few more weeks! I let him roam the house at night. Although he has a doogy bed and can sleep comfortabley in the loungeroom, he prefers to sleep in a small gap under my bed. Not allowed on my bed, no bed action. He doesnt seem to have accidents at night or when we are out of the house. The accidents happen when we are at home. He's either over excited or uses toilet training as an attention getting exercise. Still ironing out a few accidents. Using vinegar and Biozet solution, then covering area with a plastic garbage bag. Optimus doesnt like to poo on shifting ground.

Keep it up with the crate training, it's early days yet! I spent the first week, with the washing machine going full-time. I have quite a wee towel collection now. I used garbage bags on the floors with towels on top in the loungeroom. I realised much of the weeing was nerves. It will work out, keep positive. Consistancy builds trust ;)

Edited July 10, 2007 by Optimus