ruthless Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 We've taught ours to sit for everything. This was long before I started any obedience training, and now it's so ingrained in them I'm finding it really hard to teach them to stand for examination. I've been holding their stifle [or whatever it's called!] for months now and they're just not getting it. Has anyone else had the same problem? Any suggestions on overcoming it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Piximatosis Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Bloody hell yes. It has taken me nearly 6 weeks to get Holly standing and even then she breaks as soon as the instructor touches her. Thankfully now she has a solid stand whilever nobody is touching her, so that's something. I essentially broke it RIGHT down to minute basics. I started by holding her up, clicking/treating. Then leaving a hand there as a reminder but not taking any weight, clicking/treating. Then whipping my hand away with great speed and clicking/treating in that milisecond where she was standing without being held. Then I just kept building it up but only in milisecond increments... as I said, it's taken forever and I had to keep giving myself breaks during training because I was getting quite frustrated, but now once I have heeled her into a stand she is quite solid (until someone touches her - but we're working on that!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 Cool, thanks for that. Chopper usually picks up tricks really fast, so when he didn't get it on the first night I tried clicker training it I thought I needed to try a different approach. I'll go back to the clicker and try taking baby steps. Must seek out a professional to teach me some patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 If your dogs know how to do a hand touch it is really easy to teach stand form sit. Hold your left hand slightly in front and above them while sitting at heel and say 'touch' (this is hoping they know touch), when they get to know what you want, change your verbal cue to 'stand'. If you do this you will need to change your hand signal, I use my left hand held horizontally above but slightly in front of my dogs head. When your dog knows the verbal you could change your signal to whatever you want. With your dog sitting in front of you as in a sit for exam, give your dog a treat but hold the treat under his/her mouth and back towards her throat. The idea is the dog will pop up into a stand to move back to get the treat. It also is a good way to teach a good kick back stand. When the dog is doing it well name it 'stand'. I use the same hand signal as above for the stand in front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 What PAX said ^^ I find they clue on without the 'physicals' for stand as otherwise they wait for your 'hand' to contact them..... sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Piximatosis Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 See I just couldn't get them (Holly or Brody) to clue on to "get up into a stand" (lured with 'touch') being the same as "walk into a stand". They both see them as two completely different things, which may just have been the way I trained it considering they both had the same problem. I ended up giving them two separate commands anyway. "Upyaget" for standing up from a sit or a down, and "stand" to walk into a stand while heeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 With your dog sitting in front of you as in a sit for exam, give your dog a treat but hold the treat under his/her mouth and back towards her throat. The idea is the dog will pop up into a stand to move back to get the treat. It also is a good way to teach a good kick back stand. When the dog is doing it well name it 'stand'. I use the same hand signal as above for the stand in front. PAX thanks to you I have tought my Divani to stand like that. But I have found a problem with other peoples dog to be able to teach them like that, if the dog has been tought to drop from a sit, the moment you put the hand under their head they drop and with Ruthless's staffy its even more difficult as the dog is short. But ruthless I think you need to teach the dogs the stand comand, I dont think Angel understands it fully, if she does she should be doing a stand from the drop from sit etc. the stand for exam in class we do more to get the dogs used to people aproaching them and touching them, as you know some of those in the class have issues with it. I belive your dog once it learns the comand of stand will do a stnd for exam with no problems, right now Angel just loves me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 I told you could have her :D Anyway, she only loves you for 1hr a week, she loves me the rest of the time!!! I thought stand and stand for exam were the same thing. So, yeah, what I meant was I need to teach them how to stand! I'll try PMs clicker method tonight. Should be all good by next weeks class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Should be all good by next weeks class :D excellent - Ill be testing you than. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Maybe it's a staffy thing? I've been trying to teach my dog stand for months and months, and he simply doesn't get it. If you ask him to stand, his forehead will wrinkle in intense concentration, and perhaps 50% of the time he'll slowly give you a stand. The other 50% of the time, he'll give you a down, a sit, or simply keep staring at you in complete puzzlement. I've tried placing him (a couple of different ways), luring with a clicker, and capturing it with the clicker. Nothing seems to quite penetrate that thick staffy skull of his. I've finally resigned myself to placing him in a stand, then asking him to stay. He understands that far better, and I'm pretty sure it's legal for competition. And since I say "stand" every time I place him, I'm hoping that he'll sort of absorb the concept slowly by himself? So far we're up to a 20 second stand stay like this, with no distance or distraction added. Any suggestions welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Ruthless's dog couldn't be much shorter than mine Myszka. Make sure you use a high value food that the dog is willing to move around to get. You might need to do this down on your knees so you can see where the food is going. Sometimes it also helps to teach stand on a step or table (if the dog is not too big) so the dog can't creep forward. I think the dog will learn it faster if your not holding or positioning the dog, do whatever you're comfortable with. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I think some also have the dog in the sit and just crowd the dog from the front making it to stand to move away. PAX, I think Chill is taller than Angel, or maybe I forgot how small Chill is... But regardless of that I find this a bit of a problem when the dog has been tought to drop from the sit by luring with food, they immieditelly go to the drop instead of the stand. I have to GRs and a dobe in class all young puppies and they just drop the moment the handler lowers the hand below the chin. All tought to drop from a sit by luring with food. Ruthless has been shown however what to do :D and I have faith in her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Maybe it's because nobody else has a dog as smart as me, Myszka and LP, kidding of course. All my dogs have been taught to drop from a sit being lured with food but I quickly move on to dropping from stand and dropping while playing etc. Edited July 9, 2007 by PAX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Show people also often put their foot under the dogs belly when they stand in front when the dogs is sitting in the ring. PAX - no doubt - our dogs are the best Edited July 9, 2007 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms James Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 Gawd! I know what you mean! I've been trying with my guys for ages, & they always get this look on their face as if to say "I think I need an adult here...this doesn't feel right...what's your hand doing???" I'm gonna try some of these tips Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 I cured my Staffs SFE probs very quickly by practicing over the muddiest piece of ground that I could find. When the weather was good I took a bucket with me and made my own mud. They will try to avoid the mud so make your mud close to a fence or object so there is no escape! I intend to try out the mud method for straightening up my dogs broad jump too! The good part is that he will never no when he can cut the corner from just looking from the other side. Staffs are usually very "water woosey". The important part of teaching this exercise is that next to no physical help should be used if you want your dog to be able to learn what you want without the added distractions of you hovering over him, or worse, lifting the back end rather than holding it. If you are going to guide him into a stand physically, it is ultra important to catch him dropping before you have to lift (correcting) his back end. This area is very sensistive to dogs. I like Diane Baumans "Handbag" method. Loop the lead through the handle to form a lasso around the dogs belly as close to the back legs as possible. The clip end should be reattached to the collar, and hold the lead in the middle like a handbag. Use minimal force to keep the back end up if they try to drop, and use plenty of tasty treats when they make the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 That's ingenious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 not for Angel that also makes her own mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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