Puppy Killed Pet Chook

[SkySoaringMagpie]

iam worried that now that he has been 'blooded' that it will have compromised his character and want to know if i should be at all worried about him around my 12 month old daughter, cat (of whom he had got along well with to date) and our other dog a 5 yr old border collie??

He's a terrier. He's found out that killing chickens really is as fun as it looks and he's got years of breeding behind him that means he's more likely to have a go. That is not a bad thing, that's just life.

All unwanted dog behaviour whether in terriers, mutts or whatever is reinforcing to the dog in some way, that's why they keep doing it. They don't do it because they've been blooded or because they have bad character or whatever. They do it because it means "good stuff for dogs" and they have no concept of morality. Entertainment, food, security, relief of stress, prey drive - that's what motivates them.

I've got dogs that are wired to behave in certain ways. One I am 99 per cent sure would never ever chase or kill a cat, but because he's a sighthound, I never leave him alone with our cat. The other three, they've shown enough behaviours for me to believe they would do it if they were unsupervised long enough, so they definitely never get to be unsupervised with the cat. It's not that they've been blooded (they haven't), it's just common sense given what they were bred for.

Basically you've got a choice:

a) Prevent the dog from seeing or getting access to the chooks

b) Rehome the dog

Your 12 month old daughter, likewise. She should never be left unsupervised with a dog whether it kills chooks or not.

[Guest]

I must agree with the majority of posts; dogs are attracted to things that flap, run and squawk. I have a PB Jack Russell who has always been great with kids (as long as they play on his terms ie; chasing him! ), but as he has gotten older his patience is wearing abit thinner, but as yet he still has done nothing to harm a child (I always make sure he is supervised around little kids). BUT, birds are a very different thing. We have Wood Pigeons who nest in our garage constantly, and their nests are very simple and flimsy. Unfortunately a few times the larger chicks have fallen from the nests. If Rocky (my dog) spies them the first thing he does is check it out, of course the birds panic and try to "flutter" away and "CHOMP", no blood, no gore just one bite and that is the end. Fortunately for the native birds he's slowed down abit now that he's older, so they get away with their taunting of him. Had we been on a property and had poultry it would have been the same, there's no way I'd turn him out though, just make that fence "Dog Proof". And enjoy your dog, there's nothing nicer than watching your dog and kids enjoy each other and as long as your children know how to respect the dogs, all will be fine.

Zoom

[Carpe Noctem]

[Your 12 month old daughter, likewise. She should never be left unsupervised with a dog whether it kills chooks or not.

Amen

I don’t think it matters what type or age of dog toddlers + dogs = ouch and blood if left unsupervised!!

I seem to remember my lady friend giving my chooks 1 week with my staffy cross and the chook pen I had built.

I also remember building a better and stronger chicken coop for the replacement chooks 5 days later.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Carpe Noctem

[wherezaball]

Carpe Noctem

Seems like your "lady friend" might be one smart woman?

I seem to remember my lady friend giving my chooks 1 week with my staffy cross and the chook pen I had built.

I also remember building a better and stronger chicken coop for the replacement chooks 5 days later.

[rugerfly]

Dogmad - 'free ranging budgie'

RIP free range budgie

[Lowchenlove]

My OH has a huge aviary with lovebirds and something else (wasn`t paying attention - he wasn`t talking about dogs so dozed off

Initially he had two in the house but I put my foot down - it was an accident waiting to happen.

I understand your concern and feel you are being very responsible asking for advise but honestly agree with others here - secure the chook pen. Your dog is just doing what a dog does and is not a "bad" dog and you shouldn`t rehome it for doing what comes naturally.

Personally I would get rid of the chooks before the dog

[sas]

I think people have to remember dogs are predatory animals, don't expect them to act in some kind of Godly manner.

It's your responsiblity to protect any chooks on your property.

Does your dog needs to be rehomed? I don't think so, this appears to be your fault not the dogs.

[maxiblack]

My grandfather used to have an English Sheep Dog X called Henry and he was a lovely natured dog who would run up the drive and fetch the paper every day, however he did love to chase chickens and ducks (my Grandfather lived on a farm) and while supervised he never hurt them. Left unsupervised he killed a couple of ducks so my Grandfather tied them around his neck in the hope that it would deter it from doing it again, my Grandfather found Henry sleeping on them as if they were pillows . From then on Henry was not left unsupervised when out of the yard and when my Grandparents went out Henry was locked in his kennel the same as the other working dogs.

I personally wouldn't have chooks if it meant not having my dogs, we had both growing up but the chooks were always secure in their pen and the dogs were secure in the yard. A dog will give you 10-15 years of unconditional love, loyalty and companionship whereas a chook will only give you eggs - please think about that before you consider rehoming your puppy.

Edited July 7, 2007 by maxiblack

[Rozzie]

Explain hot wire.... please

[Staff'n'Toller]

Explain hot wire.... please

Electric fencing - ping string etc etc.

[huski]

"Chooks have the right to free range ' yes they do but you cant have your cake & eat it aswell,if you want other variety of animals then you need to be prepared to put yourself out as some dogs will chase chooks.

I have setters & they have killed many a native bird,there bird dogs ,i dont like it & would prefer it didnt happen & when able to to i distract but thats the way it works.

"when you have a terrier mix they just cannot be trusted" that is so untrue.

"but if he stuffs up again than I'd be sending him elsewhere to live." Dogs dont stuff up the owners enable

I agree 100%.

The dog has not been "blooded"...how ridiculous! The poor pup isn't going to turn into some hot blooded aggressive killing machine now he's innocently got a chicken. It wasn't a "calculated" killing...he was following his prey drive and just being a dog.

I have a husky and the breed can be "killers" as they have very high prey drive. He has lived happily with 2 kittens and a cat. He also lives with two smaller dogs, one is only 5 kg and the other we got as a pup. He hasn't so much as raised paw with them.... any birds, possums, bats or mice etc that come into the yard are a different story. His prey drive is so strong he will follow the chase and bite till the poor thing dies. He's not calculated or blooded. He's following his instinct. He doesn't even know what to do with something once he's caught it. He sits it next to him, puts it on his bed and picks it up to show it to me when I see him in the morning He doesn't eat it or even damage it.

To me you also have seemed to make it a breed thing... it's not, really, it's a dog thing. Some have higher prey drives than others. Maybe you should rehome the dog if you are going to live in fear of it but that is YOUR reason and has nothing to do with the dog.

Edited July 7, 2007 by husky87

[joelle]

I once knew an old boxer girl who was a gentle as a lamb with everything in the world, including chooks........SHe sniffed them, they squawked and flapped, she barked, they flapped a bit more, game on.....Only thing is, she didnt actually mean to kill them, she was a maternal dog who wanted to cuddle little things like kids and teddies, and chooks the chooks got dragged to her bed and sat on / cuddled to death, never a mark on them, but not a breath left, poor things. Couldnt blame the dog though, the owner just made the chook pen more secure. I think thats def the answer here, but as the others say if you dont trust the pup, better to rehome him, will you treat him like part of the family if you dont trust him?

My dogs are gentle but I certainly wouldnt be trusting them with small thing s that moved quickly, we had a guinea pig but he was never allowed any where near the dogs. its like having a cat and mouse together then blaming the cat for killing the mouse.

[Jed]

It's an individual dog thing. Some dogs are chook killers - of all breeds, some are not. I've had both types, and the dogs were never a problem with other animals, or children. To some dogs, chooks are a fantastic, noisy, moving target. Best fun in the world.

It's not that difficult to make a chook run dog proof.

Hmm, Joelle, I had a boxer like that. She just loved ducks. Not chooks, just ducks. She caught them and mothered them - which involved lying down and keeping the duck between her front legs - not difficult, they were usually too terrified to move - and admiring it. If I got there fast enough, disaster was averted - if not, the duckie usually went to heaven. From sheer fright, I think. She was totally uninterested in chooks. T hey just didn't do it for her. She was very maternal too.

[Joan of Arc]

We had a Lab that used to herd the chooks back into their fowl house every night. Never touched a feather on them and Labs are 'bird' dogs.

But get him near a wild duck and with a rifle in your hand and it was game on.

He knew the difference but he did once kill a rooster because it would continually chase him - never got another rooster and he never hurt another chook.

I think once he learns right from wrong the chooks and kids are pretty safe.

[Awsam]

Chooks have the right to free range the same as a dog has the right to not be kenneled (runned) forever.

Give him another chance...but if he stuffs up again than I'd be sending him elsewhere to live.

JMO

Hey if you are going to "quote" me at least have the decency people to quote the entire sentence AND not delete part of it for your own purposes as this leads to me being misquoted!!

I gave my opinion which is what everyone else has done. I don't trust Terriers...they simply have a higher kill instinct than most other breeds,go check what they were bred for!!!

I am not a new comer to the world of dogs so please don't attempt to treat me as such.

Edited July 8, 2007 by Awsam

[Tracie]

I am only after positive advise mate and not a moral lesson. You have read into my concerns the wrong way unfortunately and dont understand the entire story of my pet ownership as to why i made the comment "infringe on our lives" I have recently lost our 5 yr old staffy to epilepsy and took it apon myself to medicate him twice a day at the same time and contend with his epileptic fitting not to mention the cost involved in scans and all the rest of it. We looked after our sick boy for 3 years this way until his little body couldnt take it any more so I wont be accused of not stepping up to my responsibilities. My concerns are valid mate. But I was after proactive advise where you decided to have a personal dig and I dont deserve that mate at all. Thank you.

[Tracie]

[hot blooded? killing machine? your quote not mine. You must have had a desire to get into the field of juornalism and create hysteria mate. Like I have said to another negative and personally attacking responder...i only wanted proactive responses.

[Awsam]

I am only after positive advise mate and not a moral lesson. You have read into my concerns the wrong way unfortunately and dont understand the entire story of my pet ownership as to why i made the comment "infringe on our lives" I have recently lost our 5 yr old staffy to epilepsy and took it apon myself to medicate him twice a day at the same time and contend with his epileptic fitting not to mention the cost involved in scans and all the rest of it. We looked after our sick boy for 3 years this way until his little body couldnt take it any more so I wont be accused of not stepping up to my responsibilities. My concerns are valid mate. But I was after proactive advise where you decided to have a personal dig and I dont deserve that mate at all. Thank you.

Hey Tracie perhaps you need to go and read your original post again AND stop and read what I have written.

At no time in your orig post have you mentioned the loss of a dog to epilesy,but what the hell does that have to do with a puppy killing a chook???

I have given you positve advice in a previous post...training!!! If you bothered to read it.

My post re me being missquoted was intended only to stop people "quoting" only part sentences of what I wrote or typed.

Get a grip as I certainly did not ask (nor did my post) what I perceive as a personal attack in your last post. You asked for advice,well I gave advice through my own experiences with a dog killing my much treasured and loved show birds.

PS: My name is Sebastion not mate and I don't like being spoken or typed at in such a condescending way and I am pretty sure others will feel the same.

[Josh Grant]

As a dog owner and a poultry exhibitor i find this whole post rather absurd!

You need to invest in a secure enclosure for you chooks!!! if a puppy can push throught the wire what would an older dog do? :D

yes the chooks can free range occassionaly! but restrain the pup while they do!!! for example: here at my place the dogs are out all morning and then again at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.while the dogs are kenneled for "x" amount of time the chooks are let out to free range! Then when the dogs come back out the chooks get herded back into their pen!

When poultry and dogs are to co - exist it is imperitive that a little common sense is excersised! No matter how well your dogs are trained I would never leave them UNATTENDED with poultry as the prey drive is bound to resurface!

i think that your reaction to the situation: ie: rehoming the pup is an absolute disgrace! The solution to this problem is in your hands - so fix IT!! Build a more secure chook pen and restrain the puppy whilst the chooks free range! :p

Good Luck!

[Awsam]

i think that your reaction to the situation: ie: rehoming the pup is an absolute disgrace!

I re-housed AFTER the loss of quite a few birds and AFTER numerous different attempts of re-training etc had failed. Some dogs will just never get the idea they are to co-exist with other animals no matter how hard you try.....my gundog has run freely with guninea pigs,chooks,ducks,cats,rabbits and a rainbow lorikeet over the years without issue EVER!!

Yet my Pap X Terrier was just a killing machine when it came to the poultry....at least I gave him back rather than put him down....NOW that would have been a real disgrace,not rehousing.