Snarling At Puppy Preschool

[ashan]

I am ringing the obedience school tomorrow so hopefully they can help as he is close to 6 month anyway. Thanks for the idea about my son, he does feed him and train him and they are really good together. I was told to do this from the moment we got him (I would recommend this to anyone). My daugther helps too (she's younger). I have never been to puppy preschool before (wasn't around when I had my other dogs) so I didn't know what was good or bad but I know to steer clear in the future. I really want to correct this behaviour before it gets out of hand. The suggestion for time out I will also try as it sounds really good.

He is just a completely different dog at home. He is so affectionate and a big sook.

Oh Well I will keep trying

[cavNrott]

The instructor said he was just protecting me and my son and because he wouldn't move from our side she said she would take him next week and keep him on a leash.

Unfortunately you seem to have struck a puppy school instructor who has no idea what she's talking about. Your pup is acting out of fear, not being protective.

I took one of my pups to puppy school run by a vet nurse whose complete ignorance of dog behaviour was astounding. That puppy class did my pup more harm than good but it took me about 3 sessions to figure it out. I've never taken another pup to puppy class but opted to socialise them myself.

Some training clubs run puppy classes where the instuctors are dog trainers and they have knowledge of dog behaviour.

[ashan]

Unfortunately you seem to have struck a puppy school instructor who has no idea what she's talking about. Your pup is acting out of fear, not being protective.

I took one of my pups to puppy school run by a vet nurse whose complete ignorance of dog behaviour was astounding. That puppy class did my pup more harm than good but it took me about 3 sessions to figure it out. I've never taken another pup to puppy class but opted to socialise them myself.

Some training clubs run puppy classes where the instuctors are dog trainers and they have knowledge of dog behaviour.

I think I did so I am not taking him back. I am trying somewhere else. Any ideas anyone?? I live in Bathurst

[Poodle wrangler]

Don't worry, you're not alone in having puppy school problems. One of the dogs in my obedience class (beginners) is timid and was made worse by a Bark Busters (BB) Puppy School that advocated throwing a chain at the pup for undesirable behaviour and growling "Barrrghh!". Our obedience instructor said, "If you thinking about going to BB, just shoot yourself instead."

I took my now 6 year old pup to a BB puppy school and just found it wasn't very useful. No harm apparent, though my dog was/ is of a different temperament.

Sorry, can't suggest anyone in Bathurst. Have you seen the Triangle of Temptation at the top of the Training/ Obedience/ Dog Sports section? Might be worth posting there, too, for more expert advice and/or referral.

Best wishes .

[ashan]

Yeah I have tried posting there and only got one response (from a very helpful and really nice person who is in my area). I am following through with that now but I wanted to see what the puppy preschool was like first. It is just so out of character for him. He is such a sweet, gentle pup. I dont get it but I do think it has alot to do with me constantly sitting there stressing about what he is going to do next or what will happen. I think he is picking up on this and it is making him worse. Need to control myself

I am just trying so hard to do the right thing by him as it has been so long since I had a dog and I am nervous around ones I don't know (I know I am on a dog forum saying I am scared of strange dogs Crazy huh)

[Staff'n'Toller]

You are doing the right things.

At 5 months he is getting to be too old for puppy school, he is very different developmentally to other pups who might be younger. He is scared- that's why he is showing those behaviours, all the pups should be on a lead.

I agree with the others, you will be doing him more harm by going back there...about time to start at real school.

I will PM you.

Mel.

[ashan]

All pups were off leads and running around all over each other. He just freaked (as I would if I was him). One little pup ended up with a bloody ear (7weeks old). Definately not going back.

Mel

You are doing the right things.

At 5 months he is getting to be too old for puppy school, he is very different developmentally to other pups who might be younger. He is scared- that's why he is showing those behaviours, all the pups should be on a lead.

I agree with the others, you will be doing him more harm by going back there...about time to start at real school.

I will PM you.

Mel.

[sas]

The instructor said he was just protecting me and my son and because he wouldn't move from our side she said she would take him next week and keep him on a leash.

He is a border collie x kelpie. We have only had him 4 weeks and got him from powerlegs and rozzie on here. He is a great little dog at home.

There are some tiny pups there though and that is what is causing the concern. Dont want him to go them

Thanks

Sorry to say but your instructor has no idea what she is talking about. I would suggest you go and find yourself another uppy pre-school.

Puppies should be on leash at all times at puppy pre-school. Free play - as much fun as it sounds isn't fun or good for all baby puppies.

Your puppy is 5 months old? he's way too old for puppy school, he should be at normal obedience now.

Edited July 5, 2007 by sas

[Kelpie-i]

Ashan sorry to hear about your situation but you must really get your pup into some form of socialisation asap!

Please ensure that whoever you choose to go with, that they are extremely well versed in dog behaviour and psychology and will know exactly what to do with your pup now that he has reacted towards other dogs. The process should be now be one of desensitisation and regaining his confidence around the other dogs using only positive techniques.

I wish vet nurses would stick to what they know best and leave the dog training to the dog trainers.

[ashan]

I am adamit I will get to the bottom of this. I am trying to get in contact with K9Force and my local obedience club in the hope they can help. I can't help wondering if it was a one off though as he went to the salon today for a wash and he was in a pen next to another older dog and they said he was whingeing (talking) to him through the bars quiet happily and never once growled at the other dogs. Hmmmm

Either way obedience wouldn't hurt anyway. I'd like to get him into agility one day.

[joelle]

I agree with the fear thing, I said mine was being dominant, I should have said trying to be dominant, prob through fear / anxiety. The t'ime out' thing did work though, maybe because it taught her it was unacceptable to snarl but without encouraging the anxiety by reassuring her not to be scared / anxious if that makes sense......................... I know what I mean anyhow

Try again........ I was told if you reassure them when they are scared, you are giving them permission to think there is a reason to be scared. make sense

[ashan]

Try again........ I was told if you reassure them when they are scared, you are giving them permission to think there is a reason to be scared. make sense

Funnily enough that makes perfect sense. Must be on same wave length. I will keep on persevering

[Sarah L]

I would pull your puppy out of puppy class as this is reinforcing the behaviour. He is not protecting you but looking to you for guidance on what to do and for you to protect him. Find a good dog behaviourist who uses positive reinforcement methods and work one on one. Start by introducing him to one dog at a time preferably a dog that is a similar age to yours and is not to boistrous in nature. keep your taining sessions short and happy so that your puppy does not get to overwhelmed. This is a crucial stage for your puppy in learning right from wrong. Does he have basic commands down pat yet, this is also important.

[poodlefan]

I said this to Ashan in PM but I think it's worth mentioning here:

If the first response of a dog trainer to a problem you're having is "give the dog to me and I"ll deal with it".. RUN AWAY...

A good dog trainer helps YOU to train the dog.

Edited July 6, 2007 by poodlefan

[Kelpie-i]

PF, I couldn't agree more.

[ashan]

In the 4 weeks we have had him I have taught him to come, sit, drop and roll over so I think he is quite smart. I am sooo glad I didn't go back this week. I am finding a good obedience school now so hopefully I can sort this out.

Thanks heaps for all the help everyone I was sooo lost

[Sarah L]

Please do not take him to another class type environment just yet. His next experiance needs to be short and positive. The first sight of another group of dogs he gets will only bring back the memory of his already bad experience, this will make your job of trying to train good behaviour very difficult and may the problem worse.

Please work one on one with a trainer and build him up slowly, one dog at a time. when he can be comfortable with meeting and greeting 4 or 5 dogs in one day, then he will be ready for a class. No class instructor will let him work with the class initially if he is that bad, but being pulled to one side to work away from the class wont work either because in his mind its just another group of dogs that he needs to stay away from, remember he is already imprinted with a fear of dogs in a group. When he is ready it certainly would be good for both of you to join a class.

On selecting a good positive reward method trainer/behaviouist, make sure they practise what they preech. This means no water bottles with water to spray at your puppy, no being tied up to control behaviour, and certainly no sreaming in your puppy face. Its about team work between you and your puppy right now, you getting the right avice to apply to him and then praising him for the right responce. Any negativity right now in his training will prolong the problem. I know I have just written you a novel but I feel for you and your puppy right now. I am new to this forum but not new to dogs and their behaviour. I hope what I have wriiten will be of help. Feel free to ask me any questions you like at any time.

[ashan]

Pinnacle dts

That info is great thanks. I am just going to ring the obedience school and see what they recommend first.I have also been speaking to K9 Force and I will be enlisting their help. Your right the last thing I want to do is stick him straight into a group of dogs again and I promise that is not what I am going to do. I haven't had a dog in a long time and I am trying to do the right thing by him so I am going to get a few opinions about classes etc first. Thanks heaps for you ideas they all help heaps and I will let you know how he goes.

Thanks

:D

[Sarah L]

I wish you every success in your training with your beautiful puppy, I am sure he will get over this problem, I am glad you are working to fix it out rather than give up on him and rehome him which so many people take as the easy option. GOOD ON YOU!!!!!

[ashan]

He was a rescue shelter pup and as soon as I saw him on the net I knew he was the pup for us. He is still a baby too so plenty of training and guidence and he should be a great asset to our house (of course he is already). I am so glad I posted this. I thought people would think I knew nothing about dogs but you have all been soooo helpful so thankyou from Lear.