Right Hind Leg Limping Occasionally

[kimjm]

:p ;)

Hear it all the time. What people will do to their loved ones in the pursuit to save a $$$$

Get ready for it CavNRot might want to plug your ears :p

[blacklabrador]

Do you have a problem with the suggestion that an ortho condition needs to be diagnosed by a vet?

I do when you are trying to deny the fact that vet chiropractors can help in some cases with manipulation and exercises over a few months (and hence avoiding surgery) while orthopaedic surgeons are going to operate every time because it's the only method they have of fixing luxating patellas.

Chiro treatment first = approx 50% of animals requiring surgery (because chiro couldn't help)

Vet treatment first = 100% of animals requiring surgery (because vets only treat with surgery).

In the interests of avoiding surgery (pain to the animal and expense) I would recommend that anyone who is having difficult with luxating patellas on a dog see a reputable chiroprator first.

CavNrott I am sorry that you have personal doubts about about chiropractic care and how it can cure luxating patellas but I am sure Rowan would be more than happy to talk to you over the phone and explain how it all works. His number can be found as I explained above. He is a vet AND a chiropractor.

[blacklabrador]

Here is some information written by a vet nurse who works with a vet chiro:

I haven't looked long enough to find any research.

This is usually a structural problem, caused by a knee socket/groove that

is too shallow, allowing the kneecap to move out of place.

I work in a chiropractic practice where we see both these

conditions quite a lot. Both are treatable with often very good results by a

good chiropractor. We have excellent results with luxating patellas.

In luxating patellas, some of the muscles crossing the knee joint

aren't getting appropriate information from the brain (could be for a lot of

reasons). It takes advanced chiropractic techniques to deal with this. In

our practice, most dogs who come in with luxating patellas do not have

surgery. Once the knees and the rest of the body are treated, then rehab and

swimming and exercise can be a great help in rebuilding. Diet important here

too, removes possible obstacles to healing by removing sources of

inflammation.

[cavNrott]

I do when you are trying to deny the fact that vet chiropractors can help in some cases with manipulation and exercises over a few months (and hence avoiding surgery) while orthopaedic surgeons are going to operate every time because it's the only method they have of fixing luxating patellas.

CavNrott I am sorry that you have personal doubts about about chiropractic care and how it can cure luxating patellas but I am sure Rowan would be more than happy to talk to you over the phone and explain how it all works. His number can be found as I explained above. He is a vet AND a chiropractor.

Give it a rest will you Blacklabrador Haven't you anything better to do than nit pick my posts.

Show me where I said I have doubts about chiropractic care. I mentioned ONE case where chiro treatment failed with my neighbours dog. Whether or not you want to hear it, the condition was not helped by chiropractic care. It was not my dog with the patella problem.

You have no need to be sorry that I have personal doubts about chiropractic care. Don't waste your sympathy because your assumption is incorrect. It's often the case when people assume things that they are completely wrong. Perhaps next time you decide to post my opinion on here you might like to check that you get it right.

As it happens I have taken my dog to a chiro who is also vet a number of times and will do so again if the need arises. If I thought that a chiropractics wouldn't help the dog I would hardly have taken that course of action.

[blacklabrador]

I seriously doubt chiro manipulation will fix a luxating patella.

I think that was the statement I was referring to. That's where you show that you had doubts. I am referring and also in the above posts, to chiropractors fixing luxating patellas. I am not making claims about any other condition.

I was answering your question - no nitpicking here

Edited July 10, 2007 by blacklabrador

[tashnchief]

Well I have just got news this morning that my 2year old DDB potentially has osteoarthritis and degenerative joint disease in the knee of his right hind leg.

This diagnosis is from my very trusted vet. We cannot rule out Cruciate yet as my boy is very good at disguising his pain and was tensing all of his muscles so the vet couldn't get a good range of movement. Although the grinding in the joint could be felt easily.

However I do have a chiro that I couldn't be without and my boy will be out to get his opinion tonight. As all the vet can do at this stage is offer 3 weeks of Metacam and take things from there at least in the interim my chiro can releave any other pressure that might be from his spine being out and offer further advice perhaps.

People can be for or against chiro's but I believe they have their worth and have proven very valuable at times. I would not be with out both and I will let you know how we get on.

[sarahjane]

Hi there,

This may not have anything to do with your dogs limp, but my Shar-Pei recently died of Hock Syndrome, commonly known as "Shar-Pei Fever" - where her hind legs used to swell and she used to limp for a couple of days. She died of kidney failure due to the disease. We treated her, but it got her in the end ;)

The disease is caused by the body not being able to break down protein efficiently - could it be caused by too much protein? I know it's a long shot, and it's probably not related, but you could ask your vet about it. I think there is a test they can do...?

[cavNrott]

Thanks again for the replies. Her injury is undiagnosed as her vet is hesitant to have x-rays done because she's not limping all the time - she only limps occasionally when arising.

I seriously doubt chiro manipulation will fix a luxating patella.

I think that was the statement I was referring to. That's where you show that you had doubts. I am referring and also in the above posts, to chiropractors fixing luxating patellas. I am not making claims about any other condition.

As quoted by the OP, the condition has not been diagnosed. Being a large breed dog it does seem that it could be a partial ligament tear rather than a luxating patella. However we don't know without a diagnosis.

In any case, you stated that the approximate success with chiro treatment for luxating patella is 50%. This confirms my doubts that chiro will fix a luxating patella. The odds are not great.

I would go with an approx. 100% success rate which would be the expectation with surgery done by an ortho. I would follow up with myotherapy and swimming in a heated hydro pool. People will take whatever they think is the best course of action.

I take your point that a GA and recovery discomfort is part and parcel of surgery though pain relief is usually prescribed post surgery, but chiro manipulation is not necessarily painless either.

[blacklabrador]

In any case, you stated that the approximate success with chiro treatment for luxating patella is 50%. This confirms my doubts that chiro will fix a luxating patella. The odds are not great.

My GOD if you think 50% chance of curing a dog isn't worth trying before subjecting a dog to surgery then I don't believe you have the best interests of a dog in mind. Particularly in this case where the dog has nothing to lose by having the treatment. In fact a dog that has had LP treated with chiro and the appropriate exercises done (and not cured) will probably do better post surgery than a dog that didn't.

Surgery is painful and carries risks and I absolutely agree that it is the road to go down if chiropractic doesn't work.

My comments are not about the OPs dog (who probably has hip problems) but about LP and your comments about chiropractic not being an option.

BTW No surgeon has 100% success rate with any surgery.

[cavNrott]

My GOD if you think 50% chance of curing a dog isn't worth trying before subjecting a dog to surgery then I don't believe you have the best interests of a dog in mind.

So you don't believe I have the best interest of the dog in mind?

That's interesting, considering I paid many thousands of dollars for TWLO surgery for my dog. I didn't try to rehome her and palm the problem off onto someone else because my dog had vision problems for which I wasn't prepared to pay the cost of corrective surgery.

Does that ring a bell to you? .

All things considered, I doubt you are in a position to decide whether I have my dogs best interest at heart. I'm responsible for my dogs and seek vet advice. I'm happy to pay the cost of restoring my dogs to health. I don't try to rehome my dogs rather than pay their vet expenses.

My suggestion to those who have a dog with problems is to firstly seek veterinary advice. Don't pay attention to unqualified people on the internet who diagnose conditions that can only be diagnosed under examinationby a hands on qualified vet.

[Miranda]

My suggestion to those who have a dog with problems is to firstly seek veterinary advice. Don't pay attention to unqualified people on the internet who diagnose conditions that can only be diagnosed under examinationby a hands on qualified vet.

Well said cavNrott. Once the dog has been examined by a vet and any major problems have been ruled out then is the time to seek the services of a good chiropractor. Hind leg lameness in any large breed is always a worry and if this were my dog I'd be wanting hip x-rays done before seeking any form of alternative treatment.

[blacklabrador]

My GOD if you think 50% chance of curing a dog isn't worth trying before subjecting a dog to surgery then I don't believe you have the best interests of a dog in mind.

So you don't believe I have the best interest of the dog in mind?

That's interesting, considering I paid many thousands of dollars for TWLO surgery for my dog. I didn't try to rehome her and palm the problem off onto someone else because my dog had vision problems for which I wasn't prepared to pay the cost of corrective surgery.

Does that ring a bell to you? .

Could you have afforded elbow surgery for your dog at the same time as paying for vision surgery for another dog? Each of them costing $3000? That's a total of $6000 all up.

If you could then I am happy that you have so much money spare. It must be nice comfort when you spend your whole life being so bitter.

[blacklabrador]

Perhaps you guys just don't have access to a Vet chiro of the standard that we have here. They DO their own x rays and refer dogs off to surgery when they require it.

[cavNrott]

Could you have afforded elbow surgery for your dog at the same time as paying for vision surgery for another dog? Each of them costing $3000? That's a total of $6000 all up.

If you could then I am happy that you have so much money spare. It must be nice comfort when you spend your whole life being so bitter.

:p Who's bitter :D I'm not the one stalking around trying to pick holes in someone elses posts just for spite. Nope, not bitter. Never been happier and all the dogs are well Geez your good though . Not only can you diagnose complicated veterinary problems online you also do backyard psychology :D

Since you ask. Yes, I did pay for a specialist to perform arthroscopy for one dog shortly before another dog here required surgery. In total for ortho surgery for one dog alone = $20,000 including xrays, surgeries. specialist consults and medications.

BTW your elbow surgery was far less expensive than the one performed on my dog. You got a bargain.

It's not that there is money to spare it's sensible use of the credit card. It's a matter of priorities. Mine are the health and well being of my dogs. I'm sure if I, who have retired from active employment, can afford veterinary care for my dogs then surely someone who is in full time employment would be more easily able to afford the things that are important to them.

Edited July 11, 2007 by cavNrott

[kimjm]

I have worked for two of the most popular vet chiro's in Victoria worked in very busy sports medicine vet clinic and now as many of you know work for an Animal Physio, I feel i have had sufficent experience all round to discuss all relevent treatments and still find it hard to believe a manipulation could fix a luxating patella that is of bad enough grade to cause the dog an ongoing lameness. Even with 3 times a week hydro and physio exercise on a daily basis I still have not seen a dog go for having this condition to cured without surgery there always seems to be some luxation present thus causing degeneration of the knee.

Just my opinion though.

[Miranda]

Perhaps you guys just don't have access to a Vet chiro of the standard that we have here. They DO their own x rays and refer dogs off to surgery when they require it.

blacklabrador, I have just noticed that you refer to a 'Vet chiro', are you referring to a vet who is also a chiropractor? If you are I am pleased to inform you that we have some brilliant veterinary chiropractors in Victoria. We also have a large number of people who call themselves chiropractors, some are very good and some aren't. Taking a dog to a veterinary chiropractor is completely different to taking a dog to a layman for treatment, sure some of them are great musclemen, but when it comes to treating major structural problems such as HD, ED and PL there isn't much they can do and treating a dog with severe lameness without first having an accurate diagnosis of exactly what is causing that lameness could be very dangerous as any form of manipulation may inadvertently exacerbate the problem instead of alleviating it.

Edited July 11, 2007 by Miranda

[blacklabrador]

Perhaps you guys just don't have access to a Vet chiro of the standard that we have here. They DO their own x rays and refer dogs off to surgery when they require it.

blacklabrador, I have just noticed that you refer to a 'Vet chiro', are you referring to a vet who is also a chiropractor?

Yes

[blacklabrador]

It's a matter of priorities. Mine are the health and well being of my dogs.

And so are mine.... and the small matter of keeping a roof over our heads. If I borrow any further then I won't be able to afford mortgage repayments. It's as simple as that. I am very fortunate to own my own house and I won't be doing anything to jeopardise that.

[Troy]

There is a bit of bickering going on in this thread. Can we stop please.