Right Hind Leg Limping Occasionally

[Teebs]

I took my new dog (a 2 yr old 5kg bitsa maybe a staffyX something small) to a chiro last night for the first time. She was carrying her right hind leg alot, it was suggested to me that she may have a slipping or laxating patella (apparently not that unusual in small dogs). So I took her to him - I have not taken her to the vets as yet to see about this problem - he said she has a rotated pelvis which can cause the patella to laxate, so he worked on this. He is not sure that this will solve her problem but we have to see how she goes for 2 weeks and see if there is any improvement.

I must say that I really did like the fact that he did straight out say that he was not sure if this would fix her. He also said that it did make it a hard case too because I have no knowledge of her history beyond 1 month ago.

Just my experience with a dog chiro, he also works on racehorses which I think would be great to see!

Can you call the old owners? or they still not talking to you? they might be able to give some more info.

Any vet worth a crumpet will have no problem in diagnosing a luxating patella. They can feel a loose knee cap. I seriously doubt chiro manipulation will fix a luxating patella.

Is this in reply to RF? she said that the chiro said that it may not help (i bolded it) they are giving it 2 weeks, if not fixed or better i am guessing she will be going to the vet.

[Peaches]

I am a Labrador breeder and although I have no first hand experience of hip dysplacia, according to other breeders I have spoken to, those symptoms are typical of hip dysplacia. I really think you should get her xrayed by a vet who is familiar with the condition. Did you buy her from a registered breeder who screens their breeding stock for hip and elbow dysplacia? If you did ask, her/him to recommend a vet. If you didn't buy from a breeder then ask any breeders in your area to recommend a vet.

[Rappie]

I hope this doesn't come across as being pedantic, I am just musing on those parts of what you have said that piqued my interest (and there will be loads of opinions to be had!).

Hi all, I was wondering whether anyone could shed some light on the possible causes of my 4 year old Labrador limping on her right hind leg after she gets up. She only limps for a minute or two then comes good. It's worse at the end of the day. She seems to be fine during the day and doesn't limp while I'm walking her. She has been on Joint Guard for over three months (third 400 gram tub) and has moments when I think it's making a difference and then she starts limping again. I try to regulate and control her movements (no jumping, running etc). She is on a low fat diet (Advance Light) and has lost 5kg but needs to lose another 4kg. My vet originally prescribed Mobic because she thinks it's arthritic. When she was on Mobic she was good but I'm concerned that this could be masking a more serious problem or making the existing problem worse. I took her off Mobic (after about 6 weeks) and she was good for about 2 weeks. My instincts are telling me to get her weight down and then the Joint Guard will work more effectively. Any advise or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Jon.

This is just paraphrasing with addition thoughts, not criticism:

You have identified that your dog seems to be in pain, the pain is in the hind leg, and appears after there has been strain on the leg (after lying, or after a day's activity). The fact that this condition responds well to a NSAID (Mobic) suggests that the problem is one / both of pain or inflammation. She is also overweight, she is losing weight but the problem continues. Your vet thinks it might be "arthritic". You're concerned about continuing with pain medication because it might be masking an underlying problem, or making it worse.

It is not normal for a young, healthy dog to have an ongoing problem with pain. In a Labrador, I would be suspicious of degenerative changes in it's hips, but if presented to me for a consult, I would most certainly check the stability of both cruciate ligaments, as well as both patellas and do what I could to assess the hips in a concious dog.

How will you know if there is an underlying condition if no radiographs are taken? What is the existing condition? Arthritis isn't really a diagnosis so much as a description of a process.

Getting her weight down will certainly help with long term management of joint disease, as will chondroprotective supplements.

I think chiropractors / massage therapist / physiotherapist / accupuncturist etc definitely have a place in long term of management of lots of conditions, but I think given the range of possibilities that it is important to get a diagnosis (with radiographs) FIRST.

[rastus_froggy]

Previous owners dont want to talk as they dont give a sh!t about her... think they forgot that she had a microchip and werent expecting the new owner to be able to get their number, but I must be thankful that they drove 100km to dump her as if they didnt I wouldnt have ended up having such a precious little thing in my life.

IF the chiro is not right about her condition, I will then go to the vets, I would prefer to do it this way and find out the chiro is wrong before I go to the vets. This condition whatever it is, is not slowing this boisterous girl down yet so I dont feel it is causing her great pain but I do want to get on top of it now so that she can live a long, happy, healthy, boisterous and agility filled life

[blacklabrador]

I seriously doubt chiro manipulation will fix a luxating patella.

Apparently they can. I investigated this a while back for a friend who had a Lagotto with this problem. My animal chiro said that they have about 50% success in fixing them. Needs a few visits and special exercises etc in between.

Obviously if the problem doesnt correct itself then vetinary treatment would be your next option.

Edited July 4, 2007 by blacklabrador

[cavNrott]

My neighbour had a Lab x Poodle. Took him to a chiro for luxating patella. Stuffed around for ever with chiro and then the other knee went. Result: Surgery on both knees, 6 weeks apart.

OOOPS it was a Cocker x Poodle, not a Lab

edited because it seems I can't type a coherent post.

Edited July 4, 2007 by cavNrott

[espinay2]

It is not normal for a young, healthy dog to have an ongoing problem with pain. In a Labrador, I would be suspicious of degenerative changes in it's hips, but if presented to me for a consult, I would most certainly check the stability of both cruciate ligaments, as well as both patellas and do what I could to assess the hips in a concious dog.

I think chiropractors / massage therapist / physiotherapist / accupuncturist etc definitely have a place in long term of management of lots of conditions, but I think given the range of possibilities that it is important to get a diagnosis (with radiographs) FIRST.

Rappie has given some VERY good advice which I do think is worth taking heed of. I too feel that you need a better diagnosis before you seek any different types of treatment. I am all for therapies such as massage, chiro etc and use them myself when I consider it appropriate but you really need to have a clear idea if what the issue is before you use them. This could be a range of things, some of which Rappie has listed in the quote above, and each requires a very different approach to treatment. Personally I would get the x-rays done (and a good vet will be able to do them without causing pain to the dog) as they will help rule out as well as rule in what the problem is.

[dogcop]

Don't worry too much about me had a shit of a fortnight blowing off steam. Involved in Bad Truck Smash but still no excuse.Sorry!

[Muttaburra]

I don't know if anyone has suggested it but Fish Oil capsules do have some anti-inflammatory properties, and could help.

It is not good to allow inflammation to go on unchecked since it tends to become chronic, does some damage due to the inflammation itself and can set up a cycle of pain, where the nerves become hyper primed to pain and turns into chronic pain.

There is a lot of information about chronic pain of this type in humans and spinal, soft tissue injuries.

(Some inflammation such as when a wound is healing is good, it is a sign of red and blood white cells rushing to the site to bring oxygen for healing, and the heat and white blood cells kill any bacteria etc.)

In arthritic and joint diseases the inflammation is often due to what is known as an autoimmune response, where the body starts to attack its own cells in the joints, cartilidge etc in response to some kind of irritation/pain due to wear and tear type "injury", this kind of inflammation is not useful, the body simply goes on auto pilot as with some allergies etc.

[kimjm]

Ask your vet to do a draw test if you are worried and cruciate ligament repair. CavnRot is right this will not show up on a xray unless you can spot miniscal tear off bone. And if cruciate has ruptured unfortunatley the best option is surgery, make sure your vet explains diffrent procedures to you and if you have large or very active dog i would suggest you have a specialist look at the dog and possibly do surgery.

[Greytmate]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. Has anyone else had experience with a dog chiro? Also, does anyone know a good "joint" vet in the Brisbane (Bayside) area? Cheers, Jon.

I would get the weight off the dog first, and then take it to Dr John Murray in Capalaba. He is one of the best canine ortho vets in QLD, although semi retired now.

But really, with arthritis, getting the weight off is the best thing you can do to help the dog. Less weight, less pressure on the joints, whatever it is that is causing the arthritis.

[kimjm]

Unfortunatley I too seriously doubt that any sort of manipulation could fix a luxating patella. If the grove that the patella sits in is to shallow to hold the patella in place, how is a manipultion going to fix this????

And how does a rotation of a pelvis cause the patella to luxate?

[blacklabrador]

Hi all, thanks for all the replies. Has anyone else had experience with a dog chiro? Also, does anyone know a good "joint" vet in the Brisbane (Bayside) area? Cheers, Jon.

Rowan Kilmartin at Ormeau. The surgery is called "Animal Options" and it's on Whitepages.com

[kymbo]

Just adding a little food for thought. My little Pap was limping on a front leg on and off, and often like the op's was...more on getting up, and then 'working it off' as such. He was xrayed ( leg and shoulder and opposite side for comparison)) and nothing was found. Put on anti inflamitories for extended time with varying results. I got a second round of xrays done at a specialist, and they found the leg and shoulder normal too, and decided to xray his neck and spine. Verdict: broken vertibrae and a compressed bit between the disks.

As it turned out, when he over exerted himself, or was lying down and then got up, the fracture or the compression was pushing on his spinal column and presenting as a lameness.

He had no indication of a fracture, or tenderness, and I have no idea how or when he was injured. I shudder to think what could have happened if I took him to a chiro after getting the first all clear from the xrays. I am not a vet, but I wonder if the ops dog maybe has a spinal problem if all other avenues have been checked. Depending where the damage is on a spine decrees where an associated problem would show.

All the best op

[blacklabrador]

My neighbour had a Lab x Poodle. Took him to a chiro for luxating patella. Stuffed around for ever with chiro and then the other knee went. Result: Surgery on both knees, 6 weeks apart.

OOOPS it was a Cocker x Poodle, not a Lab

edited because it seems I can't type a coherent post.

So based on one case you recommend that people jump in and have surgery that costs several thousands of dollars before they try anything else?

I doubt that "delaying" surgery had anything to do with the other knee requiring surgery. The dog obviously had knee problems and patella problems are usually bilateral.

[cavNrott]

So based on one case you recommend that people jump in and have surgery that costs several thousands of dollars before they try anything else?

I doubt that "delaying" surgery had anything to do with the other knee requiring surgery. The dog obviously had knee problems and patella problems are usually bilateral.

*sigh* NO, that's not what I recommended. Do you recommend people take advice given by unqualified people on the internet who are neither vets nor ortho specialists and who can't see the dog even if they were qualified to diagnose? Do you have a problem with the suggestion that an ortho condition needs to be diagnosed by a vet?

The decision (in the case mentioned) to proceed with surgery was made by an orthopaedic specialist, not due to my recommendation What I said was that these people made several visits to a chiro with no positive result. That cost them a heap of money for nothing whilst the dog continued to suffer the problem. BTW luxating patella surgery costs around $500-700 dollars, not several thousands of dollars.

I'm quite aware that luxating patella problems are often bilateral. I did not suggest that the delay in having the surgery played any part in the other knee going Where did you get that from?

Perhaps you might read a post as it's written instead of putting your own slant on it.

[kimjm]

If the dog was off loading one hind leg due to pain it could agrivate an already present problem in the other hind leg, thus accalerating a problem to the point it needs surgery

[dogcop]

PAM PAM PAM PAM BLOODY PAM VETS don't always work for every one.

PAM = Piss And Moan

[kimjm]

Yes but any reputable chiro or physio will require a referral or at least details of animals vet to liase with them.

[cavNrott]

PAM PAM PAM PAM BLOODY PAM VETS don't always work for every one.

PAM = Piss And Moan

No but they work for animals. Hope you never have an emergency with your dogs where you need vet attention.

Take a chill pill. This is a discussion forum. You're the one who's pissing and moaning. Why bother to post if you have nothing intelligent to say?