luka Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hello trainers Does it matter if a trainer or training group is not a member of the national dog trainers federation? Yet is still a recognised group? Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 To answer this, I think we need you to expand on your question. Eg. Does it matter to who, and in relation to what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 To answer this, I think we need you to expand on your question.Eg. Does it matter to who, and in relation to what? Does it matter that the obedience group/club where we would take our future pup is not a member of the national dog trainers federation. We were told that it was not a good idea for us to take our pup there as maybe they would not be the best place for us to go. That they probably would not be the best place for us to go with our breed as they may not be able to cater for us. Now we don't know anymore. The breeder thinks it is a good club but now we have been told otherwise. We thought we had everything in place and now we are worried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keshwar Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Does it matter that the obedience group/club where we would take our future pup is not a member of the national dog trainers federation. We were told that it was not a good idea for us to take our pup there as maybe they would not be the best place for us to go.That they probably would not be the best place for us to go with our breed as they may not be able to cater for us. Now we don't know anymore. The breeder thinks it is a good club but now we have been told otherwise. We thought we had everything in place and now we are worried! Did the person/people who told you this explain why it would not be the best place to go? Do they have an affiliation with a competing training organisation? What breed are you getting. Unless you are getting some rare breed or non-traditional obedience breed I can't see what difference the breed will have on the suitability of a club. I do obedience with a sighthound and have found most people out my club more than helpful. To be honest I would be more inclined to go with what your breeder tells you - they should know about training their breed. HTH Bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 What do you plan on doing with your pup? If you plan to trial in obedience than it would be helpful if the club is affiliated with your state canine body or at least has people that are knowledgeable about trialling. I am not in VIC and don't know if NDTF incorporates trialling training in their clubs? The last time I was at one of their centres was when I was doing the course in 2000, so a while ago A good way to find out if the club (NDTF or otherwise) is suitable is to go along without your dog and watch a session and ask some questions about method, what type of equipment and motivation is used. Then see what you think of the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Hmmm... don't think a club NEEDS to be affiliated with NDTF - there are many, many training bodies. I agree with what Kavik said - it depends on what you want to do . I train at a club that is affilited with the VCA - can't fault them You will find one main difference... clubs associated with NDTF will usually have qualified trainers from the NDTF course. Clubs not affiliated, particularly if they are with the VCA - means they are more likely not-for-profit and have volunteers - doesn't mean it is any less quality as some 'volunteer' instructors might be breeders, trainers themselves or have been trialling for 20+ years!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheres my rock Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 reading your posts its a central asian shepherd and you plan to go to southern southern is a good club a few dolers go there you will get different responses from different epople wherever you go you should go look at a few clubs then decide how you feel Southern has some very experienced dog trianers in its wings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Given the breed you are getting- Central Asian Shepherd if i remember correctly, i think its important that your initial training is done with a trainer who is qualified through the NDTF. If you are planning to trial later down the track, you can then switch to a VCA affiliated club. You need more than just the basic teachings of obedience in my opinion- you need to be given an understanding of dog behaviour and body language so that you can be very successful with your new pup. Its not so much that anything is wrong with a non NDTF club- but just that different clubs/ organisations suit different purposes and i think the critical period and early training of a potentially difficult dog AND their owner should be handled by an expert. Later, if you want to trial, you can get alot out of a VCA club but you will already have the necesary knowledge to determine what is and is not appropriate for you and your pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 We are going to obedience primarily for socialisation. Our breeder suggested the club because you progress through levels and it is not a 10 week course etc. So each week we take our puppy until he matures. We were told that this way he will get the heaps of socialisation that he needs and we will learn from other handlers and trainers about strategies to help us rear our pup into a good family dog. It is affordable enough to go each week (which is just as well because we have to go for a year!) It is a rare breed (central asian) but the breeder said all breeds can learn, ours just will need more time than others. We don't mind if we stay in the level one longer than the others, we have been told its getting out there every week that's important. We were told that non-national dog trainers federation were not good for us because we had a rare breed and that where we were going weren't qualified and specialised in trialling and so pet owners had bad experiences there. Our breeder didn't know about this and said they can only speak from good experience and successful referrals about the club. Whether national dog trainers federation mattered or not was something only trainers could tell us about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Seeing as we have now mentioned names- i could not recommend the club for what this person is looking for with the dog they will have for a number of reasons. I won't post any further details about why on a public forum but feel free to pm me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luka Posted June 25, 2007 Author Share Posted June 25, 2007 Sorry I did not mean to cause such a fuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Luka - you didn't cause a fuss. You had a valid question which deserved explanation. If you don't receive or understand the explanation sought, feel free to post back here or PM me if you feel more comfortable. I think the main difference is that you can join with a dog school knowing it comprises of trainers ALL of whom have successfully undertaken and completed the NDTF course (a large component of which deals with dog psychology and behaviour) and so you have the comfort of knowing that these people can help not only to teach the usual obedience routines/skills but also help identify behaviours that would otherwise become problematic and/or assist in behavioural modification techniques for existing problematic behaviours. There are other schools who do have very good instructors and who may also possess a very sound knowledge and capabilities of assisting in the behavioural side of matters as well. Or they may have instructors who are brilliant at teaching you to train for obedience skills, but don't possess a broad knowledge of behaviour, genetic potential for behaviour etc. etc. And there are others who might not possess either. Don't be afraid to ask them questions of their experience/s and/or knowledge base. It's not just about how many years experience they have, but also about how diverse their experiences are. Ask if the people with the required/desired experience are the people with whom you'll be in contact in the various classes and class levels you'll be attending. Ask around of others (as you've done here). Take into account your own knowledge base and be guided by those who you feel will be best able to assist you and your pup overall. Never feel bullied into going to one place or the other. Simply weigh up what people have to say and work to recognise the sense of what they say and assess what feels the best for you - not only for now but as a foundation for later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) Double post Edited June 25, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Okay, my two cents' worth here I have had experience with both NDTF/ADT centres and not-for-profit VCA affiliated obedience centres... centres like Southern. Although these VCA centres do not have 'NDTF qualified' instructors, most big clubs like Southern have instructors with years of experience who are very qualified in what they say and are equally qualified without the formal NDTF qualification. And frankly, they do not charge as much for the same service. Also, bear in mind that whatever club you go to, different clubs have different styles of training and you need to find a club that has a training style that you are comfortable with, be it an ADT club or your local obedience club. What I mean by this is that some clubs lean towards the more 'purely positive' style of training and tend to shy away from use of correction chains etc (and I'm not referring to Southern here by any means) and others are more compulsion-oriented. Why don't you actually visit some of these clubs and take a look for yourself. That way you will see the different training styles, get to speak to different people and get to make up your own mind. If you have not trained in obedience before I strongly recommend that you do this. Don't sign up anywhere until you have seen a few different ones. And yes, if you want to competition trial I think Southern is one of the best clubs around for this (and I'm not a member, I live too far away, so I don't have an axe to grind so to speak LOL). There are lots of good clubs, you just need to work out your needs, your budget and go see different styles of training. And also, check out some of the doggy sports just in case you'd like to do them later and want to pick a club that does them, like Agililty, Obedience, Flyball etc. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Gee, I must also add here that if anyone reading this has a potentially 'difficult' breed like Central Asian Shepherd NDTF is definitely not the only place that provides people who are capable of giving very good advice indeed on how to train more dominant or harder to train breeds... and in saying that, I'm in the process of doing this course! I just feel it should be made clear that most of the larger VCA affiliated not for profit obedience clubs are happy to recommend people with dogs who are experiencing problems, or have potential problems, to private trainers who can give them a head start and help them enjoy their time at regular obedience. There are lots of brilliant behaviourists and private trainers out there who are not NDTF qualified!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 There are lots of brilliant behaviourists and private trainers out there who are not NDTF qualified!!!! Sadly some see a piece of paper as the be all and end all. I will also add some who have that piece of paper think they are the ALL. Someone may be certified by the NDTF and know only the basics. Soneone who has never completed the NDTF course may know a hell of alot more. Life/dog experience is also a big factor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILFC Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Luka- please keep us updated on your pup. I love hearing about the Central Asian Shepherds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 A piece of paper is not the be all and end all. But i still maintain that different training group/ people are good for different purposes. You just need to determine what it is you want and who is best qualified to provide it. Sometimes that means that you will use different places/ trainers at different times for different things with the same dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 Luka, if I could add my opinion to this discussion. I think what you need to be thinking about is not whether the club/school is affiliated to any particular organisation, but rather if the training style suits you and your dog. You can attend an accredited trianing organisation, regardless of "how many years experience" they have in training, but at the end of the day, if their training technique is not the right one for your dog, it could have potentially disastrous effects on what you wish to achieve later on. Check out as many affiliated and non-affiliated places as you can, watch the demeanour of the dogs, watch the training styles closely and then decide which one is right for you. In addition to all that, if you prefer a place who has instructors capable of providing you with behaviourial advice, then an accredited training establishment would be the place to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) Luka common sense is worth its weight in gold Rearing your pup will be a continually evolving process, a combination of trial and error - success with some methods back to the drawing board with others. All the trainers here have offered valuable advice, I don't believe there really is a right or wrong - each must take on board what is relevant and applicable to your own dog expereince and household circumstance. You can try one club, try two, even three - it doesn't matter. Go ultimately where you feel comfortable. But more importantly, go to one where you enjoy your time with your dog, where the people are great and your weekly attendance is one you look forward to. You just need to determine what it is you want and who is best qualified to provide it. Sometimes that means that you will use different places/ trainers at different times for different things with the same dog. Don't be afraid to ask them questions of their experience/s and/or knowledge base. It's not just about how many years experience they have, but also about how diverse their experiences are. Ask if the people with the required/desired experience are the people with whom you'll be in contact in the various classes and class levels you'll be attending. Ask around of others (as you've done here). Take into account your own knowledge base and be guided by those who you feel will be best able to assist you and your pup overall.Never feel bullied into going to one place or the other. Simply weigh up what people have to say and work to recognise the sense of what they say and assess what feels the best for you - not only for now but as a foundation for later. Edited June 25, 2007 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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