Shirley Chong Retrieve

[Sayreovi]

Tapferhund - Do you mind telling me how you did it?

With the amount of clicking its because with that method, the dog has to offer the behaviour and that generally means waiting and clicking any little indication of getting the right behaviour. I dont think its repeating the same thing 150 times, that would be counter-productive, dog would get bored very quickly. More that it is shaping the behaviour in the dogs time and offers.

Sorry if it doesnt make sense, i am not good at explaining things and become repetitive :cry:

[Mooper]

I'm not familiar with the Shirley Chong method but the only way I could get Jack interested in retrieving his Slapathongs, tennis balls etc was the two toys method. It worked a treat!

I'll get busy reading ...

ETA: Just printed the Shirley Chong website info. Looks like a test of my patience but we'll give it a go.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Mooper

[J...]

TO - I had a similar problem with Darcy, she would drop the dumbell and then sit. I taught her a "pick it up" command so that she would pick the dumbell up and offer it to me, so when she dropped it I would ask her to "pick it up" and she would then give it to me, only then would she get rewarded.

Took her a few goes but she soon figured out that it was easier to sit and give it to me than drop it and have to pick it up again before her reward

[Kavik]

Diesel doesn't have a lot of prey drive and is not always interested in chasing a ball so I'm not sure how the two toy game will go. Will give it a try though! The only time he is really keen for a ball is at the park if the ball belongs to someone else and there is competition.

[leopuppy04]

I have just been reading her site and my eyeballs nearly popped out when I read this sentence...."As a general rule of thumb, each step takes one to three training sessions to complete (a training session being 150 clicks or so)"

Does this mean what I think it means?........you repeat the step you are at 150 times per session????? :shakehead: .....WHY???

I don't use a clicker and when I am training dumbell, I only repeat each step I am at no more than three or four times per session and within 3 to 4 weeks my dogs are retrieving well.....so I am just interested to know 'why' when using a clicker you have to repeat it so many times??

Interesting.... I haven't done the Shirley Chong clicker retrieve, but I do click a lot- and I have done 'snippets' of her steps. I think I covered (this is free shaping mind you) a whole HEAP of her steps in one session (5mins)..... definitely not 150 clicks per step.... surely I can't have albert einstein dogs - so I'd have to say I disagree with what she says - the steps are really basic aren't they - things like nudge the d/b etc,etc... hmm... it would only take me about 4-5 clicks to get that right?!

As for time - well i'm a lazy trainer so it could be 3-4 weeks before the d/b resurfaces again

[PAX]

I have just been reading her site and my eyeballs nearly popped out when I read this sentence...."As a general rule of thumb, each step takes one to three training sessions to complete (a training session being 150 clicks or so)"

Does this mean what I think it means?........you repeat the step you are at 150 times per session????? :shakehead: .....WHY???

I don't use a clicker and when I am training dumbell, I only repeat each step I am at no more than three or four times per session and within 3 to 4 weeks my dogs are retrieving well.....so I am just interested to know 'why' when using a clicker you have to repeat it so many times??

I think it means 150 clicks for your dog to learn what the clicker is if it has had no experience with one before, not 150 clicks per step.

Some steps the dog gets quickly and you can progress fast, other steps take longer, just depends on the dog and how many sessions you put in. Also how good your timing is. It took my dogs (that had no interest in retrieving) about a month all up.

When I taught my dogs, I did several training sessions a day. Each session for a minute or so but the idea is to have them very excited to see the Dumbbell.

[PAX]

I've used this method with Diesel. The problem we are having is that he is really slow going out to get the dumbell once thrown. Once he picks it up he will come quickly and sit nicely etc, it is just the initial going out that he is slow. Any ideas?

Have you tried saying 'fetch' and then running out with him and clicking for speed, don't wory if stops going for the DB just click for speed, When he is good at that, click as he gets to the DB then as he picks up the dumbbell and so on and so. Just break it down more for him so he understands each part. Maybe he is slow going out because he is unsure.

[Kavik]

PAX

Sort of like racing him to the dumbell? Sounds interesting! I have a feeling he is unsure (although there is the odd good one) but not sure why. He looks very pleased with himself once he does pick up the dumbell. Sometimes he heads out well but pauses for a while once he gets to the dumbell.

[piper]

Really? Do you know when?

I had been doing it for a week and not once did he offer to sit, if i said sit, he would drop the dumb bell and then sit :p He aint much on multitasking

Piper used to do that too - she would spit it out, sit, then reach down and pick it up again Not overly helpful though!

Otherwise her retrieve was great and she knew to come to front with it, just didn't connect she could sit while holding so I ended up having her sit, giving it to her then shuffling back just a fraction so she needed to shuffle forward. I increased the distance that I moved back until she had to raise her bum a little to move forward and then until she stood up, stgepped forward and sat. I did not reintroduce throwing it until I could walk back 3 or 4m and she would come in and sit.

Hope that helps.

[Keshwar]

PAX

Sort of like racing him to the dumbell? Sounds interesting! I have a feeling he is unsure (although there is the odd good one) but not sure why. He looks very pleased with himself once he does pick up the dumbell. Sometimes he heads out well but pauses for a while once he gets to the dumbell.

If he is unsure maybe you need to reduce the distance he has to go to retrieve the dumbell. Perhaps go back to dropping the dumbell right in front of you and marking only fast pick ups, then slowly increasing the distance you throw the dumbell. Making sure to only mark the fast pick ups and only increasing distance when he is reliably going out fast.

Hope this makes sense.

Bear.

[Kavik]

We had a session earlier, I have a real problem with motivation I think! Sometimes I think I have the laziest GSD around While I know he CAN run, it is hard to get him to go above a slow trot!

I tried some motivating exercises with a ball in a sock which he likes and was starting to get some enthusiasm.

FaxonandBear

Yeah, maybe I should go back several steps, the thing is I don't know if we will ever progress! A very different sort of frustration to what I experience when training the Kelpies

[JulesP]

Kavik, Brock is a Mummy's boy and really doesn't like leaving me! I started teaching touching a target yesterday and he was very unsure about leaving me so I was using lots of verbal encouragement so he knew leaving was the right thing. It was cute to see him go from rather worried to looking rather proud! So more verbal praise maybe as he is heading out?

[Keshwar]

FaxonandBear

Yeah, maybe I should go back several steps, the thing is I don't know if we will ever progress! A very different sort of frustration to what I experience when training the Kelpies

From what you've said I think you are close it may be just a case of refining and building his enthusiasm and confidence.

I know all about frustration in teaching the retrieve - I've tried teaching my Afghan to retrieve with dubious results! :p

Keep at and I'm sure you both will get there!

Bear.