Boosting Immune System?

[Stitch]

My Dobe boy has developed what appears to be an allergic skin problem that is proving very difficult to relieve.

I feed all my dogs a raw all natural diet and was wondering if anyone can let me know if there is any way to boost the dogs immune system via their diet in addition to what I am doing at the moment???

Skin problem progresses into a skin infection - vet says it is because of a lowered immune system which is common in Dobes??

Anyone shed any light on this one??

[Anissa]

You can add some food supplements. For example a (natural) vitamin C source (dried, ground dogrose is excelent). Also things like kelp contain a lot of minerals and vitamins.

Another good supplement helping the immune system is MSM (Methylsulfonylmethan) which is a natural source for sulfor helping the body to decrease the tendency for inflammations.

Do you feed any cereals, wheat, rice or corn? They are known to cause allergies in dogs. So if you feed those I recommend to stop feeding them for a while. Just stay with fruits and veggies additional to the meat.

Sometimes a specific meat source could be the cause of allergies (very often the common ones like beef and chicken). Changing the protein source could help as well (try roo and lamb or even horse meat if available).

Hope that helps a bit.

Cheers, Anissa

Edited June 22, 2007 by Anissa

[Stitch]

Yes I feed Vets All Natural dry mix and I am thinking of withholding it from this dog. I can substitute rice for a while and just feed the raw minced chicken frames, necks, lamb flaps, etc. plus the vitamin & mineral supplement and the Omega Oils, etc.

I also give all my dogs 1 Supercoat dog biscuit per day as a treat - 1/2 in the morning & 1/2 at night so I think that I will withhold that from this dog too!

I have my own dry liver treats that I can substitute.

If I try doing all this I suppose it will give me an idea if the allergy is environmental (which I think it is) or diet.

He is on a course of antibiotics at the moment and the skin is settling down, the little pustules are almost gone but the skin is in poor condition and it won't take much for the infection to return if I don't find a solution.

If it continues after this then I will take away the chicken & just feed lamb.

Can you tell where you get MSM???

Edited June 22, 2007 by STITCH

[Anissa]

Yes I feed Vets All Natural dry mix and I am thinking of withholding it from this dog. I can substitute rice for a while and just feed the raw minced chicken frames, necks, lamb flaps, etc. plus the vitamin & mineral supplement and the Omega Oils, etc.

What sort of veggies and fruits do you add? The diet should constist of 30% veggies. Because your dog is senstive anyway I recommend to go for the organic veggies/fruits (carrots, apples and lettuce for example).

I have my own dry liver treats that I can substitute.

That's a very good treat to use.

If I try doing all this I suppose it will give me an idea if the allergy is environmental (which I think it is) or diet.

In most cases it is not just one allergy but the whole immune system is not working right.

But it usually helps to provide a healthy diet with less industrial food (you'll never know what is in there).

He is on a course of antibiotics at the moment and the skin is settling down, the little pustules are almost gone but the skin is in poor condition and it won't take much for the infection to return if I don't find a solution.

Since the AB seems to help, the skin problems are propabely caused by an bacterial infection. Therefore the immune system of your dog is not working like it should. In this case it is VERY impotant to stay away from any sort of chemical treatment (vaccines, anti worm and flea treatments, cortison ...) since they alway heavily suppress the immune system. After finishing this AB medication it is impotant to build up the immune system by continuing to give healthy food (as less industrial food as possible!!!) with immune supprting supplements (Vit. C, MSM). Also add some oils like olive, canola or even fish oil every now and then. Also feed raw whole eggs (including the shell for the phosphor/calcium balance). (My dogs love tho eat them just like that.)

To re build up a proper flora in the intestines give some good yogurt for a couple of days.

Can you tell where you get MSM???

You should get it in health food stores, chemists etc. Mostlt it is mixed with Glucosamines (it helps with joint probs as well) but try to get some without. I found a couple of internet stores that sell it:

Look here for example

Cheers, Anissa

[Leenie]

Natural Animal Care has a herbal IMM tonic and a Pet Booster powder available for just this kind of thing.

[Stitch]

Thank you all for that information.

I will start immediately on the reforms to the diet.

With regard to the veges. VAN does have dried veges in it along with the grains.

Will include the raw eggs and will have to reorganise to do the veges myself, which when you work like I do can be a bit time consuming.

Anyone got a good routine for vege preparation that I can copy????

[Anissa]

I bought a blender for all the veggies. So I put 1 carrot and some lettuce in the blender (add the supplements) and some water and make some kind of veggie smoothy.

I mix that stuff with meat mince or yogurt.

You can add the whole egg in that (will properly crush athe shell).

It is important to produce a fine "smoothy" since the dogs cannot digest the bigger pieces so well.

To safe some time you can prepare the veggie stuff for the whole week on the weekends and just stuck in the the freezer in small portions.

[NaturallyWild]

Thank you all for that information.

With regard to the veges. VAN does have dried veges in it along with the grains.

Will include the raw eggs and will have to reorganise to do the veges myself, which when you work like I do can be a bit time consuming.

Anyone got a good routine for vege preparation that I can copy????

VAN stuff is very good, but best to avoid for now if there is potentially a grain issue.

Easiest way to do the veggies is buy a whole heap at once and then put them through the blender or juicer so they are very finely chopped/pulped. Seperate the veggies mix into small containers (i use ones that fit 2-3 days worth in) and put them in the freezer to store and have one in the fridge 1-2days before feeding so can thaw out. When you have one days worth left in a container get the next container out to thaw into the fridge. Might take a couple of hours work one evening, but you will have a heap to last for several weeks (depending on how much room you have in your freezer) - i have a stand alone freezer in the garage which takes me almost a full day mixing food to freeze, but will last me a few months.

Think about adding some organ meat as well (liver, heart, kidney, tripe/giblets) - definitely want this to be from a good source (eg organic) so you don't feed chemical that have built up in them. Only about 10-15% of meal.

Other things to look at would be the chemicals you use around the house for cleaning, things that he does that aggrevates it not long after (eg running through grass), whether he is emotionally stressed, etc.

Be careful about adding yogurt unless it is a good quality one without additives (eg plain yalna), otherwise adding pro and prebiotics would be a good idea.

Edited June 22, 2007 by NaturallyWild

[caffiend42]

Aloe vera juice and apple cider vinegar

[bark]

My dog also suffers from food and environmental allergies.

If his skin hasn't recovered, try silicea which is a runny gel colloidal substance loaded with minerals for building healthy hair and skin - it's for humans but it also works for animals. You buy it from the health food stores. I give my dog who is 12kg a teaspoon each morning on it's own before meals 5 days a week for maintenance and his black hair is so glossy it looks blue black.

You can also apply it directly onto the skin and the it comes with an information sheet.

[Stitch]

Yes, I have got a bit slack with the offal recently - yuk!

Will have to get back into giving that - again yuk!

Every time I tried with the apple vinegar the dogs wouldn't eat it!

Will enquire about the Silicea - sounds good!

Edited June 22, 2007 by STITCH

[NaturallyWild]

Every time I tried with the apple vinegar the dogs wouldn't eat it!

Start with very small amounts of ACV with other stuff that is more stinky/yummy, then slowly build up amounts.

[Stitch]

Last question - need a rule of thumb here.

Blended veges - how much vege per 10kg of dog??

VAN is easy, doing it myself is new to me so I need some guidance.

I would think 1/2 cup of vege to 300g mince meat mix - what do you think of that ratio?

[NaturallyWild]

Blended veges - how much vege per 10kg of dog??

I would think 1/2 cup of vege to 300g mince meat mix - what do you think of that ratio?

About 30% veggies or almost 1/3 of the meal.

[sandgrubber]

Note, it looks like you're getting a lot of possibly useful advice. Try things one at a time, and give them enough time to work. You may already be alert to this, but I think it deserves stating: Trying lots of things at once is not generally a good strategy because:

-- you'll never be able to work out what is working

-- two things may interact, causing further problems

-- some of the things you are using are probably doing nothing, and others may be doing harm.

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Yep, good advice to remove the VAN complete mix...too many grains.

Also up the raw fruits and veg to suggested levels of 25% to 30% of daily dietary intake over a week (I don't give fruit/veg every day). Also add more offal, doesn't have to be yucky...I use lamb hearts, lamb liver, lamb kidney and whatever else I can get that's easily sliced and then frozen in 'serving' sizes.

I'm about to do a batch of veg/fruit slop. I freeze a serving size per zip lock sandwich bag, flattening it out before freezing it so it thaws quickly. I use as wide a variety as possible and always put one or two different fruits in the mix but it's predominately vegetable matter.

Contact Robert McDowell about the skin problems, his remedies really do work!

No processed or artificial anything. Review all medications but don't stop them without vet advice esp if you live in a heartworm area or a paralysis tick area for example.

You can also supplement with Alfalfa, Kelp, Vit C, Vit E, fish oils (cod liver is the least expensive and very effective)...plus probiotics to counter-balance the antibiotics somewhat.