Schutzhund Training

[Tonymc]

quote from Nekhbet.

I can see an uphill battle with Sch and other dogsports because a lot of breeders who have turned good working breeds to useless show ponies dont want to look stupid. They want their widdle doggies to just prance around a ring and then just exist to get more ribbons. How bad would some people look if the only way we could have great sport dogs for some breeds would be to import them - gee thats showing how well Australians have preserved the breeds isnt it. And frankly its just perpetuating the ignorant public image that big dogs are dangerous so dont train them! Careful that schutzhund trained dog will eat your children, so keep it barely trained and bored in your backyard people!

I could not agree more with you Nekhbet!!!! tony

[Arya]

BRILLIANTLY SAID NEKHBET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Jones]

I agree with you Nekhbet but Schutzhund in Australia has already been up and down that hill many times.

Unfortunantly Schutzhund is no longer what it used to be and is now just a glorified obedience test....the handlers of show ponies and public misconceptions have won. They have ruined what was once a great working dog test and turned it into...IPO.

[arawnhaus]

Also, I believe it is Imperative as a Rottweiler enthusiast, to understand the true origin of the Schutzhund trials.

Physical/Mental capability.To put only the BEST dogs out for Breeding,without passing these tests dogs wouldn't be considered breed worthy. In Australia it appears people evaluate their stock via the Show ring.

I honestly am all for the responsible handler to compete with good dogs in this sport and I do hope more people breeding Rottweilers acknowledge this test and that certainly INCLUDES bite work.

A once family orientated event has now turned into a "dog fight" story,bringing fear and hatred to our much loved and adored breeds via the misunderstood notions and hysteria brought on certain breeds once upon a time, due to their Country of origin Germany.Remember when and why we had to call the GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG, ALSATIAN Instead?

Breeding dogs with a balance of all drives is key to continuing with sports such as Schutzhund and it SHOULD be considered respectful for our breeds heritage, to continue to produce dogs worthy and capable of such a working test...

I sincerely hope one day ANKC can acknowledge and pass this test for the betterment of our country and it's breeding programs.

JMO.

Nekhbet,You have that spot on,put it on a lead poke a stick at it and there you have it, a monster, if only those morons could get passed defense drive and cruel Macho "I'm cool look at my dog" ego's.....

Edited September 20, 2007 by Delkerabo

[JeffnCel]

Can I please quickly add how grateful I am for this thread which has educated me on the benefits of this sport. Before we bought Buffy we were completely under the impression that it turned nice dogs savage, but having read info and joining a club, I can see how much these dogs benefit from the sport, and how our family will benefit having an extremely well trained and obedient dog all because of this sport. The dogs at our club are some of the friendliest dogs I have met (for huge dobermans and german shepherds) but as soon as they're with their trainer working BAM focussed on what they have to do... they're amazing. I watch the experienced dogs in awe of them, and I hope I can give our Buffy that kind of training for her sake. We take our 6 year old daughter to training with us sometimes, and I can tell you I trust the dogs at that club more than I trust the ones at the local dog park, with idiots for owners who don't believe in obedience or that their dogs have their own temperament.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you

[Graeme]

I can see an uphill battle with Sch and other dogsports because a lot of breeders who have turned good working breeds to useless show ponies dont want to look stupid. They want their widdle doggies to just prance around a ring and then just exist to get more ribbons. How bad would some people look if the only way we could have great sport dogs for some breeds would be to import them - gee thats showing how well Australians have preserved the breeds isnt it. And frankly its just perpetuating the ignorant public image that big dogs are dangerous so dont train them! Careful that schutzhund trained dog will eat your children, so keep it barely trained and bored in your backyard people!

And I've found the security industry has succeeded in producing more cowboys and morons who breed vicious, ill tempered and uncontrollable animals then schutzhund. An animal that loopy would never be able to be titled, plus most dont have the patience and skill it takes for a Sch title. Why bother with 3 different disciplines when you can suit up and poke that angry bugger on the end of the leash until it attacks you. Voiala - security dog.

When people realise that schutzhund is a sport, that the dog is simply playing an advanced game of tug-o-war and is equiptment orientated (some sch dogs are miserable in a real confrontation) and that tracking and advanced obedience are part of it then we'll get somewhere. Unfortunately the ONLY image people see are dogs running at decoys, teeth bared and then hanging off a fully padded guy with a stick.

There should be public demos of the tracking and obedience part, its legal and shows beautiful control. But as with a couple of clubs I've been to, the only thing I see is bite, bite, bite, bite, oh yeah we should teach it obedience. We shouldnt confuse a sport with a real working animal where the balances are different and allowances are made for a little less in some areas.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Graeme

[reddog21]

Thanks to everyone for your posts. When I started this I asked for some intelligent, unemotional information and we are getting it now.

It does seem that there are two definite groups with Show dogs and Working dogs but I do believe we can meet and share each other's experiences and common enjoyment of our own, and other's breeds.

[MonElite]

Great post Nakhbet

They want their widdle doggies to just prance around a ring and then just exist to get more ribbons.

Not everyone, but yes the majority.

When people realise that schutzhund is a sport, that the dog is simply playing an advanced game of tug-o-war and is equiptment orientated (some sch dogs are miserable in a real confrontation) and that tracking and advanced obedience are part of it then we'll get somewhere. Unfortunately the ONLY image people see are dogs running at decoys, teeth bared and then hanging off a fully padded guy with a stick.

How do we change it?

There should be public demos of the tracking and obedience part, its legal and shows beautiful control. But as with a couple of clubs I've been to, the only thing I see is bite, bite, bite, bite, oh yeah we should teach it obedience. We shouldnt confuse a sport with a real working animal where the balances are different and allowances are made for a little less in some areas.

Where do they do those demos? Noobody wants to allow the demos, dogsport people a pushing shit up the hill as is.

Unfortunantly Schutzhund is no longer what it used to be and is now just a glorified obedience test....the handlers of show ponies and public misconceptions have won.

If everyone starts to think that this is the case than nothing will ever be done. Uniting people might get some results, hnaging the head down will not.

How many people activelly train at the sch clubs?

I dont have the dogs suitable to do all three areas of the sport but why should I not do one or two?

Do the clubs only promote the combo packages? If so perhaps they should have a look at their marketing of the sport and promote the areas separatelly.

It does seem that there are two definite groups with Show dogs and Working dogs but I do believe we can meet and share each other's experiences and common enjoyment of our own, and other's breeds.

Would be great wouldnt it reddog?

But the working people look down at show dogs and the show people look down at the working dogs.

Any ideas on how to combine the two?

I mean Im all up for it but hitting my head on two walls isnt going to be pleasant.......

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.gsdinfo.co.uk/News/VA.htm

what does the GSDL saying about this?

Edited September 21, 2007 by myszka

[Jeff Jones]

How many people activelly train at the sch clubs?

In Australia?....no more than 50 at the very highest who train consistantly...of the people who trial maybe 15-20 if that.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Jeff Jones

[MonElite]

Exactly Jeff.

Why is that? is it becouse there are no suitable dogs to do the work? is it becouse its very far for people to go to those clubs? is it taht the clubs dont promote that not all 3 disciplines have to be done?

I say its a combo, plus Ill add that its not cheap to train at the sch club - when compared to a local obedience club that is.

But I would say that if the clubs promoted obedience and tracking a lot more they would get more members.

I had send people to the sch club and they said - its all good but I dont want my dog to do the bite work, and became disinterested, as it seems that this is a must.

[Tonymc]

Delkerabo,well well said!!!!Agree agree agree!!!!Testing should be widespread and standard practise!!!!Breed registeries in other Country"s will not allow a Dog into the Studbook till Tests have been passed.

We are seeing more and more Dogs surfacing with Physcological issues that are genetic.The only way to start to turn the problem around is testing.

I find breeding Dogs without testing to be totally ludicrous!!!!On the same principle how many People would buy a Car without a Test Drive?Not too many I would think!!!The Car might look like it will do our Job, but we do not rest on appearance only so we test it by Driving to make sure. Tony

[Jeff Jones]

Exactly Jeff.

Why is that? is it becouse there are no suitable dogs to do the work? is it becouse its very far for people to go to those clubs? is it taht the clubs dont promote that not all 3 disciplines have to be done?

I say its a combo, plus Ill add that its not cheap to train at the sch club - when compared to a local obedience club that is.

But I would say that if the clubs promoted obedience and tracking a lot more they would get more members.

I had send people to the sch club and they said - its all good but I dont want my dog to do the bite work, and became disinterested, as it seems that this is a must

I think it had more to do with only certain breeds being eligible to compete and there being age restrictions on when dogs could gain titles. (aswell as some of the reasons you listed).

If people only want to do obedience and tracking they are catered for by the ANKC which has what I believe are harder tracking tests ( apart from the FH Title) than IPO.

But yes if IPO Clubs promote themselves better they probably will get more members.

[MonElite]

I think it had more to do with only certain breeds being eligible to compete and there being age restrictions on when dogs could gain titles. (aswell as some of the reasons you listed).

After all GSD is the most popular breed in Australia, rottie is another VERY popular breed.

Where are they? certainly not at the IPO clubs....

Do breeders encourage, ohhh let me word it differently, do breeders inform buyers of such clubs?

I somehow doubt it...

[darthgsd]

I noticed around the traps that the sport of Schutzhund and IPO training seemed to be a topic that needs to be brought out in the open and I think this is probably a good place to do it.

For the record I have trained in Obedience with Western Suburbs Dog Sport club here in Sydney and enjoyed their help and philosophy of dog training.

I support the Schutzhund training when it is done correctly.

I'cant be a member of Dogs NSW if I support this sport neither can my club but it is an exciting sport and both the dogs and owners enjoy it.

Nobody wants a viscious dog and unfortunately that is how the public and some owners see the sport, however, Sch. training does not promote viscious dogs and in fact creates a stable, well adapted animal.

The Rotty clubs across Australia are going to have to discuss this issue. The GSD people have been down the road and the Germans will ask Australia to breed dogs with a view to falling into line with them on the standard.

I think it's time to discuss this sport and the position of Dogs NSW and the ANKC. Input from other states is appreciated.

I ask for thoughtful, unemotional comments please.

I have a 14mo male BLACKGSD and have been interested in Schutzhund for a long time. I'm closest to the Wollongong one. I have read various literature about the sport and am drawn to it as something that I find would be beneficial to my GSD, and the natural instincts of the GSD bred of working lines. Unfortunately i don't know any GSD owners, let alone GSD owners (or German Breed owners) interested in Schutzhund to gain a better understanding of what it involves. At the moment, from what I have read, it is the articles that I have read that portray the sport as only for a select breed of people, let alone dogs. Any information/articles/further reading that you could steer me to would be helpful to me to know if I should go and take a look(and do you need to be invited?)....and is it a preferred male-handler dominated sport, as I am a female. I did not realise that Schutzhund (Dogsports) was not an acceptable sport to DOGSNSW. What a shame, I just became a member, with interest in entry level obedience and having a young dog, thinking this would be a good forum to get into Dogsports.

[cramet]

a friend of my boss is a female handler and she has a very good mal and they both do well in comps

i dont think its male dominant sport i think its a sport that female unfortanly choose not to do for different reasons

[alpinebase evita]

1.

how do we realy get this sport out in the open... with the ANKC there to stop it?

2.

how do we advertise this sport to become out in the open...... and understood?

[arawnhaus]

Exactly Tonymc. People might purchase that "vehicle" only to discover all of it's problems later on....

ANKC are quite aware of it,they need to acknowledge it's benefits and then maybe it could be accepted by them as a valuable tool....

[Jennifer]

HI im interested in getting my dog involved in this. Id there a club in sydney? And do they accept other breeds? I own a pitbullX

[Jeff Jones]

Jennifer there are 3 clubs in Sydney there contact details are on this link AUSC CLUBS.

Just so you know Western Sydney Dogsport Club is at Horsley Park & Sydney Dogsport Club is at Castle Hill.

[pawsaroundoz]

Hi Reddog and others,

I do not own sch type dogs but have to agree the dogs and handlers are mostly really well trained and pleasent people/dogs!

I used to do my training at a park in Melboune's western 'burbs where a sch group trained on the oval....I met a number of the dogs and handlers on my way back to the car and would often stop to watch, after a while I was asked why i always put my own dog away! I let my sooky Lab out to meet and greet and even do some obediance on one occasion - the trainer said it was good for his members and dogs to experiance other breeds too.

I was very impressed by all

Annie and her boyz