mutchumbo Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 its also hard for the clubs some times because they need to screen the people that join the club so they are not there for another reasonand those type of people ruin it for the clubs What systems/strategies are currently in place now to avoid the rogue cowboy-type individuals who abuse what training they receive at these clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) What systems/strategies are currently in place now to avoid the rogue cowboy-type individuals who abuse what training they receive at these clubs? They dont let the "cowboys" join...I have never known of any innapropriate persons being allowed to train at any of the AUS affiliated clubs.....so if there are its news to me. Bryan Haus Mecki, a Malinois and his handler Reg Worth, Queensland Policeman did well at the World Championships in France - scored 253 in IPO. This was against the top SchH handlers. Reg Worth is a Canine Development Officer not a Police Officer, yes Bryan Vom Haus Mecki did very well overseas, but i guess i have to say that seeing as one of his pups is in my avatar . Edited June 23, 2007 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Q Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) i'm a big fan of shutzhund. i looked into a couple of times just for intereests sake and read that a dog must be extensivley tested and very obediant and stable before they have a cahnce at actually learning any controlled protection work. one thing i was thinking about the other day, if a dog attacks a person attempting to harm their owner then counted as a dangerous dog because they've attacked soemone? if so, if a shutzhund trained dog protects their owner in the same manner, is this dog still seen as "dangerous" eventhough they are highly trained? i reall think that the people not involved in schutz that believe its a bad sport that encourages dogs to attack people need to spend some time looking at just how much training goes into a succesful schutz dog. i have been worried about how it will effect BSL. its gotta be one of the most difficult dog sports to do well in and i fully respect the people that do Edited June 23, 2007 by busterlove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 one thing i was thinking about the other day, if a dog attacks a person attempting to harm their owner then counted as a dangerous dog because they've attacked soemone?if so, if a shutzhund trained dog protects their owner in the same manner, is this dog still seen as "dangerous" eventhough they are highly trained? Not all dogs that attack someone in that scenario are declared as dangerous dogs by the council and or police so it would depend on the scenario. The ruling should be no different than if a Obedience trained/trialled border collie defended its owner in the above scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) the law state i cant quote it directly that if you feel that your life is threatened and the dog bites the person it is classed as self defence not a dangerous there is more to it but thats the short version Edited June 25, 2007 by cramet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) COMPANION ANIMALS ACT 1998 - SECT 16 Offences where dog attacks person or animal 16 Offences where dog attacks person or animal (1) If a dog rushes at, attacks, bites, harasses or chases any person or animal (other than vermin), whether or not any injury is caused to the person or animal: (a) the owner of the dog, or (b) if the owner is not present at the time of the offence and another person who is of or above the age of 16 years is in charge of the dog at that time—that other person, is guilty of an offence. Maximum penalty: (a) 50 penalty units except in the case of a dangerous or restricted dog, or (b) 300 penalty units in the case of a dangerous or restricted dog. (1A) The owner of a dangerous dog or a restricted dog is guilty of an offence if: (a) the dog attacks or bites any person (whether or not any injury is caused to the person), and (b) the incident occurs as a result of the owner’s failure to comply with any one or more of the requirements of section 51 or 56 (as the case requires) in relation to the dog. Maximum penalty: 500 penalty units or imprisonment for 2 years, or both. Note: Conviction for an offence under this subsection results in permanent disqualification from owning a dog or from being in charge of a dog in a public place. See section 23. (2) It is not an offence under this section if the incident occurred: (a) as a result of the dog being teased, mistreated, attacked or otherwise provoked, or (b) as a result of the person or animal trespassing on the property on which the dog was being kept, or © as a result of the dog acting in reasonable defence of a person or property, or (d) in the course of lawful hunting, or (e) in the course of the working of stock by the dog or the training of the dog in the working of stock Edited June 25, 2007 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 What systems/strategies are currently in place now to avoid the rogue cowboy-type individuals who abuse what training they receive at these clubs? Few wyears ago two of my friends that had dobes went to train at the sch club. They were signed up as "trial" memebers for 8 weeks. The club trains twice a week and they went to training twice a week for 8 weeks. It gave the club a chance to asses the potential new memmbers, and hte new people to asses the club and to decide if they want to continue. So I guess if there was a "cowboy" it would show in the 8 weeks that the person isnt suitable to become a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 thanks kavik i couldnt rember wereit was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutchumbo Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 What systems/strategies are currently in place now to avoid the rogue cowboy-type individuals who abuse what training they receive at these clubs? Few wyears ago two of my friends that had dobes went to train at the sch club. They were signed up as "trial" memebers for 8 weeks. The club trains twice a week and they went to training twice a week for 8 weeks. It gave the club a chance to asses the potential new memmbers, and hte new people to asses the club and to decide if they want to continue. So I guess if there was a "cowboy" it would show in the 8 weeks that the person isnt suitable to become a member. Hmm... Interesting indeed. Is it also compulsory for a Police records check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 (edited) lol no.... ETA: The problem isnt with the members of the Australian United Sportdog Clubs so doing a background check would be useless... Edited June 25, 2007 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 25, 2007 Share Posted June 25, 2007 I went to the Schutzhund club twice, once to watch and once with Diesel. Very nice bunch of people, laid back, very friendly and helpful. They were impressed with Diesel's heeling I know Diesel would not be able to do the character assessment as he does not have a lot of prey drive and can be rather lazy, but I am tempted to do the obedience and tracking elements (have done a very little bit of tracking for fun). The only reason we haven't been back is that it is very far away! I haven't been to the closer one at Castle Hill yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted June 26, 2007 Author Share Posted June 26, 2007 Thanks for your replies. Looks like this isn't a big topic at present I'll revive it from time to time to try and get some discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairo1 Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Hi All, I have been to a number of Schutzhund clubs to watch and photograph and from my experience the clubs are well aware of the negative feelings towards them. As such I have found that they take great care in (and of) their members and foster an ethic not seen in many other clubs. I know that those members that are active in these clubs do so with a passion and train and work hard. Somehow I don't think they would tolerate 'cowboys'. I also think that most of these dogs are so highly trained that they make exemplary canine citizens. Cowboys can be found in any discipline and the most dangerous ones are those that have no affiliation with any club because they are the ones that are out of reach as far as education is concerned and they will do as they please. To be honest, of all the canine aggression/accidents I know of, I can't think of any where the dog has had a good level of education (be it Schutzhund, obedience, agility what-ever). I accept that there will always be abberrations as with anything but my comment is in general. My comments aren't meant to be a slight on clubs of other activities because they manage things at a level appropriate to the nature of the club and I applaud the fact that Schutzhund clubs take things so seriously. Cairo1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 Great post Cairo1. Cowboys can be found in any discipline and the most dangerous ones are those that have no affiliation with any club because they are the ones that are out of reach as far as education is concerned and they will do as they please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 (edited) bump good topic for others to follow help to change more minds Edited June 29, 2007 by cramet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconlon Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 any idea who the contact is for Castle Hill Schutzhund training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted July 9, 2007 Author Share Posted July 9, 2007 I think they are called Sydney Dogsports club. I will try to find a number Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) for Castle Hill it is: Maurice Delle Coste Ph: 0404 468 611 Edited July 9, 2007 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 COMPANION ANIMALS ACT 1998 - SECT 16 ... Isn't it legislated that a dog trained in "attack" has to be declared a dangerous dog simply for that fact? Or is the sport of sch exempt due to the manner in which it is trained? I haven't been personally involved in Sch sport myself, but I have a friend who is very committed to it with her dogs. I think the sport is quite disciplinary - ie it teaches the handlers strong responsibility (just like many people receive and learn the disciplines of Judo, Karate etc ..... I hope you all get my drift). I trust my friend for her judgement in relation to her dogs 100% and as a result I too trust her dogs .................................. moreso than I can trust numerous of the dogs who I come into contact with as a result of my work. I'm sorry that I don't have the required knowledge to contribute to your thread beyond the above, Reddog, but on the knowledge base that I have about the world of Schutzhund Sport, I hope it gains the recognition and acceptance you seek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 (edited) Isn't it legislated that a dog trained in "attack" has to be declared a dangerous dog simply for that fact? Or is the sport of sch exempt due to the manner in which it is trained? It is exempt due to the manner in which it is trained. ETA: It is classified as a sport. Edited July 9, 2007 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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