reddog21 Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 I noticed around the traps that the sport of Schutzhund and IPO training seemed to be a topic that needs to be brought out in the open and I think this is probably a good place to do it. For the record I have trained in Obedience with Western Suburbs Dog Sport club here in Sydney and enjoyed their help and philosophy of dog training. I support the Schutzhund training when it is done correctly. I'cant be a member of Dogs NSW if I support this sport neither can my club but it is an exciting sport and both the dogs and owners enjoy it. Nobody wants a viscious dog and unfortunately that is how the public and some owners see the sport, however, Sch. training does not promote viscious dogs and in fact creates a stable, well adapted animal. The Rotty clubs across Australia are going to have to discuss this issue. The GSD people have been down the road and the Germans will ask Australia to breed dogs with a view to falling into line with them on the standard. I think it's time to discuss this sport and the position of Dogs NSW and the ANKC. Input from other states is appreciated. I ask for thoughtful, unemotional comments please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Quote from Reddog. Nobody wants a viscious dog and unfortunately that is how the public and some owners see the sport, however, Sch. training does not promote viscious dogs and in fact creates a stable, well adapted animal. Well said Reddog and spot on!!!!I am a big Fan of Shutzhund.To me a Shutzhund Dog is a very well trained Dog.Later on I would love to get involved with my American Bulldog Pup. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Well - as you know reddog - Im a fan of the sport as well. I belive that there are few clubs around Sydney - one you attended, one at Castle Hill and Illawara one near Wollongong. From what I know clubs are small, they have no "power" and basically have no say with ANKC. Any efforts that sch clubs have done in the past to have the sport recognised failed. About a year ago the American KC has officially recognised, I was thinking that perhaps Autralia will have some hope, but than recently seen thing in the Journal. I dont know what can be done, Id like to help if its possible, but if this will put my ANKC membership in jeopardy than I might not help. I dont think Im the only one with that way of thinking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I am a big Fan of Shutzhund.To me a Shutzhund Dog is a very well trained Dog.Later on I would love to get involved with my American Bulldog Pup. You wont be able to trial in Sch with tht breed. Australia follows FCI rules an those limit the breeds eligible to compete. Most sch clubs wont accept non eligeable breeds. jeff Jones posted in another thread Breeds eligible under FCI regulations.German Shepherd Dog, Boxer, Dobermann, Rottweiler, Giant Schnauzer, Airedale Terrier, Bouvier Des Flandres, Hovawart, Belgian Shepherd (Groendael, Malinois, Tervueren, Laekenois), Berger de Beauce, Berger de Brie, Berger Des Pyrenees A Face Rase, Berger Des Pyrenees A Museau Normal, Berger Picard, Lapinkoira, Suomenpystykorva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 I undersatnd what you are saying Myszka. I believe that 2007 is possibly the time to revise the ANKC and state bodies' policy on this training after all it is made up of dog owning people. If there have been cowboys in the past so be it and they will have to be stopped in the future. I'm endeavouring to push this subject forward as it won't go away by bans on people or clubs by controlling bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 The other aspect of the problems is that not many dogs are bred to be suitable for the sport, well for the bite work that is. Last WAE held by Dobe Club of NSW seen ZERO passes. dogs dont have enought prey drive nor strong enough nerves to do the sch work. I have know few people that had a dog were interested in doing the sport turned up at the club but than found out that the dog isnt suitable. They can do the obedience or tracking part but really the whole sport is about all 3 areas not aobut one area. And this goes for all breeds not just the dobes Im familiar with. Not many breeders are interested in breeding dog suitable for the sport as well, the bigger picture is that the sport if for the keen few, as it has no recognition, as it has no people that are interested in being banned byt ANKC and also becouse there are no dogs to do the sport with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 "And this goes for all breeds not just the dobes Im familiar with. Not many breeders are interested in breeding dog suitable for the sport as well, the bigger picture is that the sport if for the keen few, as it has no recognition, as it has no people that are interested in being banned byt ANKC and also becouse there are no dogs to do the sport with" I hear what you're saying but people are obviously interested in breeding to the German requirements or importing dogs. Is it fair that an Australian can't enter a Trial in Germany, using a German dog, without fear of sanction from the ANKC or Dogs NSW if he was in NSW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 (edited) Is it fair that an Australian can't enter a Trial in Germany, using a German dog, without fear of sanction from the ANKC or Dogs NSW if he was in NSW? OMG - really???? well that is WRONG. its like saying you cant go over 110km/h speed limit in Germany in a German car becosue you have an Australian drivers licence......... Edited June 22, 2007 by myszka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 the only way it would change is if we could change peoples proception on the sport not many people know what it takes to work a shutzhund or law enforcment dog because it is not some thing you see all the time its like with my rott he is a sec dog i have to be very carful of what i say because most people think the worst of me doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 I am a very big fan of schutzhund/ipo indeed. I feel that if schutzhund were brought out into the open and the reasons behind the character work explained to the general public, and the dogs with stability of temperament it seeks to promote and help produce from a breeding point of view, it would be fantastic. Yes, the GSDCA have just gone through a debacle over this. I was very saddened by some of the rubbish that took place about it. I believe Britain has changed some of its laws regarding Schutzhund and Schutzhund has been taken into their appropriate canine control organisation and legitimised more recently there. Can anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 What was the GSDCA argument - Im not familiar with any details at all. Can someone give me an overview or the argumenst on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 their was a joint thing between the gsd and rott clubs but i dont know much more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 I don't know of any arrangement between Rotts and GSD clubs but I do know the GSD people went through a lot of heartache over the issue. I am personally interested in Rotts and hope to learn by and support the GSD people. Cramet and Arya have said what needs to be out in the open. People do have Police trained/ guard trained dogs and they have to 'lay low' when alll they do is their job. And the emotions and heartache have to be out in the open as well. Schutzhund and IPO aren't dirty words. This knowledgebank is accessible to all Australians and is a valuable and legitimate Sport. Let's get it out into the open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cramet Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 its also hard for the clubs some times because they need to screen the people that join the club so they are not there for another reason and those type of people ruin it for the clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog21 Posted June 22, 2007 Author Share Posted June 22, 2007 its also hard for the clubs some times because they need to screen the people that join the club so they are not there for another reasonand those type of people ruin it for the clubs Totally agree with you but, as I said, cowboys will exist, the macho, bullshit people will try. I put Western districts and the South Coast Club up as a responsible clubs with good policy and backed up by honest people who are in it for the dogs. The supporters of Sch. have been beating their heads against the wall for long enough. It is a viable, dog enhancing sport, that deserves to be out in the open. I can feel people cringing about their pre concieved ideas and the need to be 'loyal' to their Breed Club, and that is fine. lets just get on with opening up our minds to the possibility of new adventures in dog sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted June 22, 2007 Share Posted June 22, 2007 Quote from Reddog. lets just get on with opening up our minds to the possibility of new adventures in dog sports. Very very well said!!!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 I'm glad you have raised this discussion. Having seen and met both Schutzhund and law enforcement trained dogs, I think the perception is that they are agressive dogs. They are not. They are better trained than many dogs out there. Anyone who puts that much time and effort into any sort of training for their dogs is not there to create some kind of uncontrolable monster, they can do that at home with very little effort. I seriously doubt that those that are anti the sport have actually done any research into it or have any first hand knowledge of it at all. They have read a piece of paper that says there is 'bitework' and that's the end of their reading and what their entire opinion is based on. Bitework is a 'PART' of it, not 'ALL' of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Wednsday, very good Post and I have to agree with you on the points you raise.Many condemm an activity without firstly doing any research whatsoever!!!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 Reddog21.........another huge fan of Schutzhund here and I did participate in the sport for many years.....AND I was at the time and still am a member of the ANKC. *"but I do know the GSD people went through a lot of heartache over the issue. " Only a loyal few to the breed being a working dog first ,went through the heartache......the majority being in FULL support of the sport NEVER being recognised in this country ! *"Is it fair that an Australian can't enter a Trial in Germany, using a German dog, without fear of sanction from the ANKC or Dogs NSW if he was in NSW? There are 3 competitors overseas at the moment and as far as I know all are ANKC members. Two have taken their German Shepherds and are taking out the trials over the Germans They had the blessing of the Queensland GSD club. The other person over there has a Belgian Shepherd and he too went with the blessing of the Belgian Club and the ANKC,so I have been told. *"cowboys will exist, the macho, bullshit people will try." These fools will always exist and it is not right that the majority of responsible dogsport enthusiasts can't have the sport recognised or even accepted because of the idiot few. (We miss out but the idiot few are still in existance aren't they !?) If we could get Schutzhund recognised as a legitimate sport and if regulations, thru Govt , could be brought in that would shut the cowboys down and only allow registered clubs with rules and regs for the sport and membership,then the sport would be better off IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted June 23, 2007 Share Posted June 23, 2007 (edited) For your interest Reddog....... Visit the following site for all the information on the two Aussie German Shepherds competing overseas....you will also find a great write up in the latest issue of National Dog Ringleader. http://www.schutzhundaustralia.com/ and the following is some news on the Belgian Shepherd...... Bryan Haus Mecki, a Malinois and his handler Reg Worth, Queensland Policeman did well at the World Championships in France - scored 253 in IPO. This was against the top SchH handlers. Bryan Haus Mecki was supported by the Belgian Shepherd Dog Club of Queensland and the CCCQ ... and, believe it or not, had the approval of the ANKC to compete! So Reddog.......it's time the Rottie clubs got their act together and send someone to compete overseas!! Edited June 23, 2007 by Tapferhund Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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