Basic Training - So Many Questions.

[Ausmoz]

I know it can be a bit annoying on forums when people either ask for general advice, or ask a lot of questions in the one post. But, I don't really want to start lots of new theads, and maybe by talking about a few problems at once can help someone to build up a picture and help us prioritise.

We've already had Emma (16wo beagle X) for 2.5 weeks now, and I don't want to go on for too long without doing things "properly". We've called an obedience/training place that sounds good (thanks ness) but they don't have any new groups starting until July 8th... which feels like a long way away. Until then I'm worried that we'll get into bad habits that will be hard to break. Just the normal anxiety of a new "parent" I guess.

So far we've discouraged her from jumping up to greet us by ignoring her when she does, and patting her calmly when she's sitting, which has been pretty successful, although she still jumps up occasionally when we're walking around out the back. I'm pretty sure she knows what "sit" and "come here" mean too, but she's not always so keen when there isn't food around. She sits before we put her food bowl down, but we don't make her hold the sit until the bowl is on the ground, as long as she doesn't jump we don't really mind...

One issue at the moment is that she's not toilet trained - there haven't been too many accidents because we watch her, but because we're both out during the day (and leave her outside) she's only had limited time inside to practice. I'm really looking forward to being able to relax more when she's inside, and for her to be able to sleep inside overnight. I hope we'll get there eventually if we're patient.

Also, she gets in a biting/mouthing mood sometimes, and seems to prefer biting/chewing us to anything else (not that we let her bite us). Sometimes out the back she starts attacking my pants/jacket (while I'm standing up) and it can be really hard to get her off. Pushing her away makes her more excited, and I can't really completely ignore it because she'll rip my clothes. Ocassionally she's actually nipped me near the knees (and on my wrists when I've been trying to get her off) and it really hurts. It's only happened a few times, but I don't really know how to deal with it when it does.

We've taken her for two walks around the block on her lead (today and yesterday). She pulled off to the side quite a bit, and at times stopped dead and sat down. We held some dry dog food (which she likes as a reward) to encourage her to move forward, and come back to us, and walk at our sides, but overall it was pretty slow going. I've read things like "never let them pull on the lead"... but I also want her to get used to the idea that by walking on the lead she can see nice places outside. Is it better to train in the backyard first? If so, at what point is she "ready" to go outside?

Sometimes she steals things inside, like tissues out of the box, or shoes that are on the ground. What's the best way to get something off her that I don't want her to have?

We also have two cats. At the start, Emma kept her distance, but she's gotten more bold lately and will actually (gently) jump on one of our cats in an attempt to play. That cat is really good, and very calm around Emma. She never runs away unless Emma actually makes physical contact, and even then not right away. Hannah (the cat) likes to lie on our bean bag, and will stay lying there for a while even after Emma gets on in and makes playing motions, but she does eventually jump off... at which point Emma chases... Should we be calling Emma away before she gets to the beanbag? We mostly do, but every now and then I have this thought that maybe this time Emma will be calmer, and maybe even lie down and go to sleep next to Hannah. It's not like she runs to the beanbag or anything, but she gets more and more excited trying to get Hannah to play.

Sorry for all the questions. If anyone has any advice about anything, I'm listening.

[TessaBella]

So far we've discouraged her from jumping up to greet us by ignoring her when she does, and patting her calmly when she's sitting, which has been pretty successful, although she still jumps up occasionally when we're walking around out the back. I'm pretty sure she knows what "sit" and "come here" mean too, but she's not always so keen when there isn't food around. She sits before we put her food bowl down, but we don't make her hold the sit until the bowl is on the ground, as long as she doesn't jump we don't really mind...

This sounds pretty good so far. Keep up the good work.

One issue at the moment is that she's not toilet trained - there haven't been too many accidents because we watch her, but because we're both out during the day (and leave her outside) she's only had limited time inside to practice. I'm really looking forward to being able to relax more when she's inside, and for her to be able to sleep inside overnight. I hope we'll get there eventually if we're patient.

Patience is the key and it does take time. Best of luck

Also, she gets in a biting/mouthing mood sometimes, and seems to prefer biting/chewing us to anything else (not that we let her bite us). Sometimes out the back she starts attacking my pants/jacket (while I'm standing up) and it can be really hard to get her off. Pushing her away makes her more excited, and I can't really completely ignore it because she'll rip my clothes. Ocassionally she's actually nipped me near the knees (and on my wrists when I've been trying to get her off) and it really hurts. It's only happened a few times, but I don't really know how to deal with it when it does.

I think you should end play when she starts this. Simply ignore her and walk inside, leaving her outside. Only for a few minutes. Persist and she'll get the point.

We've taken her for two walks around the block on her lead (today and yesterday). She pulled off to the side quite a bit, and at times stopped dead and sat down. We held some dry dog food (which she likes as a reward) to encourage her to move forward, and come back to us, and walk at our sides, but overall it was pretty slow going. I've read things like "never let them pull on the lead"... but I also want her to get used to the idea that by walking on the lead she can see nice places outside. Is it better to train in the backyard first? If so, at what point is she "ready" to go outside?

My advice would be to start in the house with no distractions. She's only young, so doesn't need a lot of exercise if you play games with her and train daily. Don't expect too much. She's a puppy (and a beagle puppy at that) so her attention span won't be fantastic. Do the things you've been doing in the house for a while. Once you're happy that she's doing well there, move outside (in the yard) and slowly into the wide world.

Sometimes she steals things inside, like tissues out of the box, or shoes that are on the ground. What's the best way to get something off her that I don't want her to have?

Trade her for food or her favourite toy, and slowly introduce "leave it" or a similar command and lots of praise when she takes the food and releases the other object. I'd also put things that you don't want her to have out of her reach!!! Most important.

We also have two cats. At the start, Emma kept her distance, but she's gotten more bold lately and will actually (gently) jump on one of our cats in an attempt to play. That cat is really good, and very calm around Emma. She never runs away unless Emma actually makes physical contact, and even then not right away. Hannah (the cat) likes to lie on our bean bag, and will stay lying there for a while even after Emma gets on in and makes playing motions, but she does eventually jump off... at which point Emma chases... Should we be calling Emma away before she gets to the beanbag? We mostly do, but every now and then I have this thought that maybe this time Emma will be calmer, and maybe even lie down and go to sleep next to Hannah. It's not like she runs to the beanbag or anything, but she gets more and more excited trying to get Hannah to play.

No experience here, but perhaps make sure that the cat has a safe place where she can get away from the pup. Up high maybe?

Hope I helped at least a little...

[Ausmoz]

Thanks Bella I think I mostly need reassurance that it's ok if things take time. I think I've been freaked out by reading something along the lines of "every mistake that is allowed to happen is a step in the wrong direction" (which I guess is true... but you can't really expect things to happen immediately either). Also, I'd like to think that the occasional slip-up on our part in terms of letting her pull on the lead wont be the end of the world.

I think the same article also mentioned all of these landmarks, and said that if you got a dog that hadn't met them you'd always be playing catch up and that the dog would never reach it's full potential. It was one of the things I came across online before we even got Emma, and I haven't tried to find it again since. Overall, it wasn't the most helpful thing to have read.

[The Spotted Devil]

Perhaps I can help you out with the cats as I have 2 very spoilt Burmese cats who were highly displeased with the intruding mad Dally puppy...especially when he delicately picked up Lilly's tail and tried to carry it off to his bed Unfortunately he thinks their paw swipes and hisses are part of the game. I established a strong, calm "leave" command (initially on lead) with lots of praise as soon as he does as little as look away, some clicker work to encourage eye contact with me when the cats are in the room, giving everyone some separate time and special attention and, finally, a back up water spray kept for emergencies. Although less than 7 months old, the lad is getting the message - not perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he's improved out of sight. I never leave them together unsupervised either, as Lilly has taken to teasing him and I don't want Zig to get into the habit of chasing. He's just desperate to play with them but they don't appreciate his wet nose in their lovely fur nor his goofy play bows

Edited June 20, 2007 by The Spotted Devil

[Falling_dawn]

I cant help with the cat thing but interested in what other say as my cat hate's Lucy and spends all day up as high as she can get if Lucy gets too close she gets hissed at and swiped

as for the lead training Lucy pulled or sulked when we first took her out it took a while for her to get used to the lead she wanted run we started making sure we held the lead close and walked really fast but not quite as fast as she wanted to go then slowly stared walking slower till she is now used to walking next to us at our speed there was alot of "good girl" and so on when she walked nicely we also used a harness as she did not like the feel of having something puling on her neck

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

Mine does the same thing with the latching on to clothes. I can be walking down the hall or even around the backyard and she'll just latch on and start snarling away. It's not possible to just walk away and ignore her because she comes along with me, she doesn't let go of the pants! haha.

This is actually something that really bothers me and I find that the only thing that gets her off them is to squirt water in her face. This doesn't deter her though and she'll come back for more always. If I reach down to "drag" her off them so to speak she gets really snarley.

So I can't help you with that one, but if anyone has any suggestions they'd be great!

:-)

[TessaBella]

Rhi, maybe get a water pistol and give her a quick squirt when she latches on? Praise heaps when she lets go...

[imouttahere]

We've already had Emma (16wo beagle X) for 2.5 weeks now, and I don't want to go on for too long without doing things "properly". We've called an obedience/training place that sounds good (thanks ness) but they don't have any new groups starting until July 8th... which feels like a long way away. Until then I'm worried that we'll get into bad habits that will be hard to break. Just the normal anxiety of a new "parent" I guess.

I had to wait a week or so for the puppy class at my vet but dogs learn really quick when they're young and consistency is the key (so I've learned). I think someone said it takes a week to break a habit and 21 days to correct it.

One issue at the moment is that she's not toilet trained - there haven't been too many accidents because we watch her, but because we're both out during the day (and leave her outside) she's only had limited time inside to practice. I'm really looking forward to being able to relax more when she's inside, and for her to be able to sleep inside overnight. I hope we'll get there eventually if we're patient.

I'm home 24/7 so my case might be different but it took a while for Sasha to toilet train too. It's a pain but taking puppy out on the hour helps. It's freezing outside so it's hard to wait till she's done what she has to do in order for me to praise her. I also crated her in the laundry for a few nights which seems to have solved it. I have found that keeping Sasha in bed with us with the door closed has now stopped any accidents but if I leave the door open she sometimes leaves the bedroom to do her business during the night....yeah nice breakfast surprise for me the next day NOT lol.

Also, she gets in a biting/mouthing mood sometimes, and seems to prefer biting/chewing us to anything else (not that we let her bite us). Sometimes out the back she starts attacking my pants/jacket (while I'm standing up) and it can be really hard to get her off. Pushing her away makes her more excited, and I can't really completely ignore it because she'll rip my clothes. Ocassionally she's actually nipped me near the knees (and on my wrists when I've been trying to get her off) and it really hurts. It's only happened a few times, but I don't really know how to deal with it when it does.

I have bought a few toys and treats and when she bites I yelp and move away and give her one of her toys or a pigs ear. This has totally stopped the mouthing and nipping now.

We've taken her for two walks around the block on her lead (today and yesterday). She pulled off to the side quite a bit, and at times stopped dead and sat down. We held some dry dog food (which she likes as a reward) to encourage her to move forward, and come back to us, and walk at our sides, but overall it was pretty slow going. I've read things like "never let them pull on the lead"... but I also want her to get used to the idea that by walking on the lead she can see nice places outside. Is it better to train in the backyard first? If so, at what point is she "ready" to go outside?

I was told to start in the backyard first with treats for reward based training and then slowly give the treats less. Everytime she pulled on the lead I would stop and stand still and ask her to sit. She has learned that if she wants to go forward she has to stop pulling on the lead as pulling = having to stop and sit. It's such a painful process for me but it's working really well.

Sometimes she steals things inside, like tissues out of the box, or shoes that are on the ground. What's the best way to get something off her that I don't want her to have?

give her one of her own toys or a pigs ear to chew.

We also have two cats. At the start, Emma kept her distance, but she's gotten more bold lately and will actually (gently) jump on one of our cats in an attempt to play. That cat is really good, and very calm around Emma. She never runs away unless Emma actually makes physical contact, and even then not right away. Hannah (the cat) likes to lie on our bean bag, and will stay lying there for a while even after Emma gets on in and makes playing motions, but she does eventually jump off... at which point Emma chases... Should we be calling Emma away before she gets to the beanbag? We mostly do, but every now and then I have this thought that maybe this time Emma will be calmer, and maybe even lie down and go to sleep next to Hannah. It's not like she runs to the beanbag or anything, but she gets more and more excited trying to get Hannah to play.

I do time out when this happens. If Sasha chases Annalease she gets time out in the backyard. I clap hands as well when she does something naughty so she knows to stop if I say 'HEY" and clap my hands.

Sorry for all the questions. If anyone has any advice about anything, I'm listening.

I'm by no means a dog trainer but I've learnt through puppy class and blieve it or not, The Dog Whisperer on Foxtels Animal Planet channel. You can always ask your vet as well as I've rung them a few times in the past with questions.

Hope this helps

[Rhi*Jak*Ed]

Rhi, maybe get a water pistol and give her a quick squirt when she latches on? Praise heaps when she lets go...

I do the spray bottle thing and whilst she does let go, she hasn't stopped latching on altogether and will always come back for more. I will try praising more when she does let go.

Thanks :-)

[ness]

Great to hear that the club sounds like it will be a good club. I know that you said they don't have another class starting till the 8th of July but can you pop down and watch a current class without your dog. Maybe then you can observe that they teach and it will give you a head start for when you have Emma in class.

Appologies to everybody if all this has been posted but I thought I would just briefly answer your questions.

Sounds like your doing a great job at discouraging them jumping and excellent work with the food bowl. Don't be overly worried about Emma not being keen when there is no food around at this stage. You don't just go from rewarding to not rewarding and she is only a baby - plenty of time to reduce the number of rewards a bit down the track.

You can find heaps of puppy training articles here: http://www.k9events.com/pups1.htm

On the toilet training front - do you crate her when she is inside at all - are you crate training? If you want to work up to having her sleep inside that is the best way. Dogs are very unlikely to soil there sleeping area so if you place the crate alongside the bed and take her out at regular intervals (or when you hear her stirring). Straight outside reward and then back in the crate. Puppies tend to be able to hold their bladders for the length of time in hours relevant to their age in months so at 16 weeks or 4 months the dog should be able ot hold it for 4 hours.

Eventually you can move the crate to another location when you are sure she will settle for the night and then just let her out first thing in the morning. When she can be trusted around the house you can either remove the crate or just leave the door open and Emma can sleep in there if she choses.

On the biting here is a link to a number of useful articles which might be of assistance: http://www.k9events.com/behaviourB.htm#biting

This a really good article on mouthing by Ian Dunbar: http://www.jersey.net/%7Emountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

Another good article on puppy mouthing: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/spt/SPT_Puppies.htm

Yep great idea to practice having her walk on a lead in the backyard when there are zero distractions. Since you don't really want to reinforce the idea of pulling one thing I recommend when teaching a puppy to LLW (loose lead walking) is to limit situations where the dog is on-lead and likely to be highly distracted. Keep the sessions short. If you want to exercise the pup (since really they should go on long leash walks till they are more developed). Drive to a safe area and attach a long line and just let the dog run around or play ball. Then when the dog is a bit more settled you either pick up the long line and encourage a bit of LLW or you can clip a shorter lead on and again try a bit of LLW. The long line is there so the dog doesn't take off so you can't get them to return.

You can also use the opportunity to work on recalls but start up really close and you can even show the dog the food and lure them away from whatever they were interested in. Never use the long line to drag the dog, unless of course its an absolute life threatening emergency just use it to step on to limit the dogs options.

On the stealing front - you can have two options - work on a come command and then exchange the item for a more doggy appropriate item or secondly teach a Leave it. The best way to teach leave it might seem a bit counter productive but you basically give the world LEAVE and then reward the dog (and I mean with really GOOD stuff - roast chicken, kabana, cheese - high value rewards). The idea being the dog learns that when it hears that word that good things will happen. You can condition COME or whatever you want as your recall word. Basically just say the word and reward the dog. Its the same way you would condition a bridge word or a clicker.

From there you teach the dog that if it looks at you rather than the food you reward it with better food. I am sure they will go into it in more detail at training or if they don't ask or I can write it out in detail.

Anyway hope this helps some.

Ness

Edited June 24, 2007 by ness

[imouttahere]

Great to hear that the club sounds like it will be a good club. I know that you said they don't have another class starting till the 8th of July but can you pop down and watch a current class without your dog. Maybe then you can observe that they teach and it will give you a head start for when you have Emma in class.

Appologies to everybody if all this has been posted but I thought I would just briefly answer your questions.

Sounds like your doing a great job at discouraging them jumping and excellent work with the food bowl. Don't be overly worried about Emma not being keen when there is no food around at this stage. You don't just go from rewarding to not rewarding and she is only a baby - plenty of time to reduce the number of rewards a bit down the track.

You can find heaps of puppy training articles here: http://www.k9events.com/pups1.htm

On the toilet training front - do you crate her when she is inside at all - are you crate training? If you want to work up to having her sleep inside that is the best way. Dogs are very unlikely to soil there sleeping area so if you place the crate alongside the bed and take her out at regular intervals (or when you hear her stirring). Straight outside reward and then back in the crate. Puppies tend to be able to hold their bladders for the length of time in hours relevant to their age in months so at 16 weeks or 4 months the dog should be able ot hold it for 4 hours.

Eventually you can move the crate to another location when you are sure she will settle for the night and then just let her out first thing in the morning. When she can be trusted around the house you can either remove the crate or just leave the door open and Emma can sleep in there if she choses.

On the biting here is a link to a number of useful articles which might be of assistance: http://www.k9events.com/behaviourB.htm#biting

This a really good article on mouthing by Ian Dunbar: http://www.jersey.net/%7Emountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

Another good article on puppy mouthing: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/spt/SPT_Puppies.htm

Yep great idea to practice having her walk on a lead in the backyard when there are zero distractions. Since you don't really want to reinforce the idea of pulling one thing I recommend when teaching a puppy to LLW (loose lead walking) is to limit situations where the dog is on-lead and likely to be highly distracted. Keep the sessions short. If you want to exercise the pup (since really they should go on long leash walks till they are more developed). Drive to a safe area and attach a long line and just let the dog run around or play ball. Then when the dog is a bit more settled you either pick up the long line and encourage a bit of LLW or you can clip a shorter lead on and again try a bit of LLW. The long line is there so the dog doesn't take off so you can't get them to return.

You can also use the opportunity to work on recalls but start up really close and you can even show the dog the food and lure them away from whatever they were interested in. Never use the long line to drag the dog, unless of course its an absolute life threatening emergency just use it to step on to limit the dogs options.

On the stealing front - you can have two options - work on a come command and then exchange the item for a more doggy appropriate item or secondly teach a Leave it. The best way to teach leave it might seem a bit counter productive but you basically give the world LEAVE and then reward the dog (and I mean with really GOOD stuff - roast chicken, kabana, cheese - high value rewards). The idea being the dog learns that when it hears that word that good things will happen. You can condition COME or whatever you want as your recall word. Basically just say the word and reward the dog. Its the same way you would condition a bridge word or a clicker.

From there you teach the dog that if it looks at you rather than the food you reward it with better food. I am sure they will go into it in more detail at training or if they don't ask or I can write it out in detail.

Anyway hope this helps some.

Ness

Awesome information in your reply Ness!

[Ausmoz]

Thanks so much to everyone who's replied. There is some excellent info here.