Body Language Question For Those With Docked Breeds

[anniek]

Hi All,

My only experience is with greyhounds (rescue) and I am used to the long helicopter tail.

I currently have a foster grey who had her tail "docked" as a result of continuing happy tail.

When watching body language, I am very used to looking at the tail for signals. I know there are other signs, but as greyhounds tend to sleep with their eyes open, and some have sleep startle, I am looking for a few tips.

When my greys are on their beds, if I walk past or even just look at them when they are awake, their tails wag.

With my foster there is no signal from her (that I can see).

When she is plaing in the yard her hackles come up really quickly. She is not aggressive with my greys, they all do zoomies together, no nipping or anything. Wondering if the hackles are her substiture for the lack of tail.

Anyway, not sure what I'm asking here :p just thinking aloud perhaps.

annieK

[boxagirl]

Bondi is docked, but she wags her whole body as a substitute.

Her hackles sometimes come up when she is zooming around the backyard, I think they come up during excitement, and high arousal. I don't think it has anything to do with being docked though.. just her?

Can you see your fosters "stump" wag when on its bed? Maybe it just doesn't react?

[anniek]

thanks boxagirl.

We call her Miss Wigglebottom, because her whole body wags with her stump - when she's up and about.

Can't see any signs of life from the stump when she's lying down though

annieK

Bondi is docked, but she wags her whole body as a substitute.

Her hackles sometimes come up when she is zooming around the backyard, I think they come up during excitement, and high arousal. I don't think it has anything to do with being docked though.. just her?

Can you see your fosters "stump" wag when on its bed? Maybe it just doesn't react?

[haven]

I must admit that when I got Nova, my Rottweiler bitch who is docked, after having Loki, a German Shepherd with very expressive body language, I had trouble reading her and it took quite awhile before I was able to tell what was going on with her all of the time. Sometimes, like when she wriggles around like a pretzel, it is very obvious but at other times I was completely stumped (pardon the pun ) as to what mischief was going through her mind at the time.

In a way it was a good thing because I think it you own a tailed breed you tend to rely on the tail somewhat because it is often the most obvious signal, however it is also considered by many to be the most inaccurate. My experience with Nova has given me a much finer eye for things like muscle tension and weight ballance which are very important when reading body language.

You will get a feel for it, in time.

I also find with Miss Nova that her hackles are raised often when she is in a high state of arousal, whereas with Loki I don't really recall seeing them at all ever, despite the fact that he is a very anxious dog and has had many a 'panic attack'. I do however notice the opposite with him, in that when he is very stressed he hold his hair very close to his body. It's a bit hard to describe, but if you've seen it you will know what I mean.

I have noticed that smooth coated breeds, many of which are (or at least were) traditionally docked, tend to show piloerection more often than longer coated breeds. I wonder if this is genetic or perhaps because of the coat type itself, or if it could be as you say a result of them being a docked breed. I don't believe it is an intentional act on the part of the dog because they have no tail, but perhaps something that evolved as a survival trait. But then, for that to occur you'd be talking natural selection, which doesn't really occur amongst domestic dog breeds in the same manner as it would in the wild.

Hmmm this thinking aloud thing is catching

[J...]

Her hackles sometimes come up when she is zooming around the backyard, I think they come up during excitement, and high arousal. I don't think it has anything to do with being docked though.. just her?

Darcy is the same - the hackles come up when she's running around with other dogs. Right from her neck down to her rump and even the ring around her tail

Amazing how many people get stressed out about it though, thinking she's aggressive, til I explain that its purely an excitement thing for her!

[anniek]

Hi haven - thanks

As this grey is a foster, I'm trying desperately to think of ways to help her forever home humans

Our settling in manual for adopters is quite generic (for greys), so trying to help them "read" her a little bit.

She doesn't have a home to go to as yet, so I will be watching her very closely.

I've just walked into the loungeroom where there are three "post dinner" greys, one on a dog bed (end of tail flicked), one on a couch (big wag) and another on a couch looking like a dead body

I guess I'll have to look even closer!

annieK

[Poodle wrangler]

Sorry am not much help, but the docked boxer we had also used to do a full-bottom to full-body wiggle.

I have a mini poodle who's docked (pre-docking laws) but their tails are left at about 1/3- enough tail to sweep the floor or bang with excitement. Our new standard poodle is undocked and it's interesting to see so much body language in a tail. Would make an excellent featherduster, too , if only I could train him to use it.

Edited June 20, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[Tonymc]

Anniek,there seems to be some Fallacies about the Body Language of Docked or Bob Tailed Dogs.I never have a Problem with the Language of a Bob Tail, as the Tail is not the only component of the Dogs language.I guess though to many because the tail is so obvious, that major importance is contributed to it.A Dog uses all parts of his or her Body in communication.

I see it this way.Imagine your standing there talking to a Human Friend of yours.Your both standing facing each other whilst communicating.Say your Friend is one who uses their Arms and Hands animatedly whilst talking.Now we tie one of your Friends arms behind his Back.Without his Arm,can he still communicate?Yes of course.Just the same way a Dog with no Tail can communicate as well as those with a Tail. Tony

[anniek]

yes I understand all of that Tony - thank you.

My original query was related to greyhounds who sleep with their eyes open and can often have sleep startle.

Other then gently saying their name (usually straight from the kennel they don't have one) and waiting for a reaction to find out if they are awake or not, the tail is usually an indicator as to whether they are asleep or awake.

annieK

[jbbb]

Flame wags her stump, but usually only when she's trying to get me to give her food!

The closer to the nose, the better and indication of the dogs intentions.