Pressure Point Collar (aka Prong) Discussion Welcome

[Erny]

Wonder what the adviser to Gov Policy would say to that (me being an ex-Gov employee and Policy Forum Adviser)

So do I, Xaube. So do I .....

This is my point and amazement - that the govt pushed the legislation through on such seemably flimsy thoughts/arguments as "wrong dog". I use reward based training when possible and appropriate .... but sometimes with some dogs you need to be able to control unwanted behaviour just enough to grant a window of opportunity for the "reward training" to be offered and strengthened.

After much research, reading article, searching the web etc I now believe that the German Training Collar is a effective tool ...

I am now the owner of two more GSDs ,that have obtained Obedience Titles and Tracking Titles, (trained by an older and more informed trainer I).

A formal submission from you would be great if you would?

Please see THIS THREAD

Posts #1 and #127 in particular.

Let me explain a slip chain is what we call a choker and a German Training Collar is a prong collar.

Understood that.

Edited November 6, 2007 by Erny

[Griffo]

erny my thing about my experiences with prongs is still coming, i havent forgotten... will be done hopefully by tonight

[Erny]

erny my thing about my experiences with prongs is still coming, i havent forgotten... will be done hopefully by tonight

Thank you Rachelle. I'll be looking out for it.

In the last few days a few more responses have been coming through - this ALL helps ..... GREATLY. Thanks

I can't do this without your help and really appreciate the contributions that have been made ...... and those that are forthcoming.

And thanks to Rom too, who has been tremendous in sending out reminders to those we know recognise the benefits of the use of prong-collars. We know people intend to put together their own submissions, but I also know how hard it can be to find the moment to do it. Lives are busy. And time rolls past so quickly. Before you know it, it has gone. For those still to submit their contribution (see other thread) it really will help towards the effort in making a difference and although time is precious, I fear it's going to become even moreso with Christmas (and all the hub hub that goes with it) almost upon us.

So now's the time folks!

Look forward to hearing from you.

Edited November 7, 2007 by Erny

[JeffnCel]

Hiya Erny I got a pm asking for a submission about prongs, but I've got no idea what to write except they're fabulous and our dog has no bad feelings towards it Any tips, ideas??

[Seita]

JeffnCel, I got a PM too and I just wrote my experience before and with the prong. Maybe just write why you went with a prong over other training collars and why you think they are great compared to other collars?

[JeffnCel]

Alrighty thanks for that I really don't know where I'd be without my prong

[Erny]

Sorry JeffnCel ..... I've only just got back here.

Thanks, Seita, for answering in the meantime.

Yep - that's about the strength of it ..... your 'before and after' experiences. Try not to make it a "one-style of equipment -vs- other style equipment" type argument, but do highlight your dog's reaction to the proper use of the prong-collar; what you couldn't achieve before the prong-collar; your dog's improved behaviour; your dog's improved emotional status (eg. relaxed; calm) what he/she is like now and if you have managed to do so, how you've been able to wean off the prong-collar and (eg) how your dog now walks nicely on a flat collar where he/she never used to .... etc. etc. etc.

These are all only examples because I have no idea how your dog was before and after - but by the sounds of it, it works a treat for both of you.

Does that help? ;)

Look forward to receiving it, JeffnCel.

Thanks to all who have submitted so far. It's been great and am looking forward to receiving more. Keep up the good work . It will all help.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Erny

[DieuxBlancs]

OMG I am a convert!

I have a White Shepherd Stella and whilst we do static drill of any discription she is nearly perfect, heeling or just walking down the street it is a nightmare to keep her focus on me and stop her pulling. For some time I have been reading this and other threads re prong collars and today I brought one, I felt dirty buying it, on the Victorian collar black market.

I have read and watched all I can find on line so I think that I am using the collar correctly. I took Stella for a short walk around our block, less tha one k, by the time we got home she was walking with a dead loose lead for the first time. I did not have to "pop" her at all, on a check chain I seem to do more "popping" than Rice Bubbles, all that was required were three quick direction changes early in the walk and her focus was on me and where we were going. She did yelp once but there seem to be no ill effects, no breathing noises and no sore shoulder for me.

I will keep you posted on our progress.

[Rom]

OMG I am a convert!

I have a White Shepherd Stella and whilst we do static drill of any discription she is nearly perfect, heeling or just walking down the street it is a nightmare to keep her focus on me and stop her pulling. For some time I have been reading this and other threads re prong collars and today I brought one, I felt dirty buying it, on the Victorian collar black market.

I have read and watched all I can find on line so I think that I am using the collar correctly. I took Stella for a short walk around our block, less tha one k, by the time we got home she was walking with a dead loose lead for the first time. I did not have to "pop" her at all, on a check chain I seem to do more "popping" than Rice Bubbles, all that was required were three quick direction changes early in the walk and her focus was on me and where we were going. She did yelp once but there seem to be no ill effects, no breathing noises and no sore shoulder for me.

I will keep you posted on our progress.

Hi DB,

I don't think its a black market as such? Could be wrong but my impression was that its not illegal to buy, sell or own a prong in Vic, just illegal to have one on your dog?

Love the ricebubbles comment :D

[Erny]

Rom's right .... it's not illegal to purchase (through the right channels) or possess a prong-collar. It's only illegal to USE one on an animal - and then only if you're in Victoria.

Edited November 14, 2007 by Erny

[reddog21]

I am the owner of large dogs. I started training my bitch, who I got at 8 weeks, with an all breeds dog club who used only 'positive rewards'. Training progressed slowly for about 12 months, however, I still didn't have a failsafe stay or recall and she was prone to lurching unexpectedly.

I tried various collars, check chains, Gentle Leader and Sporn collars and all were either dangerous in as much as they could cause damage to the dog (Gentle leader) downright useless ( Sporn) or needed massive amounts of pressure to get effect ( Check Chain).

At 18 months I wasn't progressing with my obedience training and took my girl along to a private trainer, K9 Force, who introduced me to the Prong collar. The dog immediately settled into the tool and was walking comfortably beside me in a matter of minutes.

The Prong allows the dog to choose what is going to happen as far as the amount of correction that will be required and provides guidance for the animal. Since we have been training with the Prong my bitch is enthusiastic to get the collar on, walks at heel and has a stable stay and recall. There is virtually no effort required to guide her and definately no use of high pressure as required with a check chain.

I took a show dog on who was 18 months old and had been shunted around to different foster homes after his owners divorced. This dog had a bit of fear aggression at first but settled down after a couple of weeks with me. Being a show dog he had no Obedience training but as I require all my dogs to have obedience training I put him straight into a Prong collar.

This dog was a very trim 50 kg with an attitude that he knew what he wanted. We started simply and, again, within minutes was walking at heel. He was also a very intelligent dog and within weeks we had a steady down stay, sit stay, come, return to heel and stand as well as stand for examination.

I did have some problems with him lurching at other dogs when out in public when we first started but the Prong enabled me to quickly bring him back to heel even with 50Kgs of dog bouncing at the end of the lead.

In the 3 years I have been using the Prong I have found them to be gentle, safe and effective. The dogs seem to like them and never shy away and are relaxed and receptive during training.

Because these training tools are not allowed on Dogs NSW controlled grounds I revert to a Martingale collar on these occasions but I will always use the Prong collar when training.

I have found that my dogs are far more stable than other big dogs especially when put under pressure of different environments or unexpected challenges and I put this down to the effectiveness and reliability of training with a Prong collar. I take my bitch to pet expos to meet the public and she is happy to shake hands, do tricks and be cuddled by children without any concern and I put this down to her training.

[Erny]

Trainer not guilty of cruelty

I've only added this link here so that it might be sourced back and read by the "powers that be" in the Victorian State Labor Government who might care to be interested. It's not entirely relevant, because the training tool in question is not the prong-collar, but I think the principals behind the case are the same as that which is being argued here.

Oops .... better type out the URL or those reading from a hard copy of this thread won't be able to source it.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=119132

Edited November 18, 2007 by Erny

[Erny]

*Bump*

[SilverHaze]

Don't know if this is too late or not.

When my male siberian was 6 months he hurt his back. This wasn't picked up on until he was about 8 months. By then he had lost all muscle developement in his rear legs. We went to see the late Dr Alex Hauler, who manipulated him, told me it was a long process to get him right - and told me he couldn't pull. To say i was horrified at the prospect of figuring out a way of stopping this Siberian who is an utter maniac on a lead, pulling, was to put it lightly. Alex suggested a prong collar. I knew where to get one, but was still hesitant, i said i would try a gentle leader first. He gave me one of those "knowing" looks and siad ok you do that first. I think the gentle leader lasted 3 days. My dog was only doing more damage to himself on a gentle leader - ever seen how much presure a dog needs to put on their neck to keep pulling on a gentle leader? Well he managed it. So by the third day i had procured a prong collar, and off we went. While i must admit while it never stopped him pulling completely, the result was remarkable, and allowed for him to recover from his injuries.

In the past have used a prong collar on a number of Siberian rescues, and the difference is wonderful. They allow for me to communicate with the dog much more quickly and precisely, and the dog is happier for it. While i am sure i could probably do with alot more training in using the tool, it is has been the most effective tool I have used when having to deal with over the top dogs (which classifies approx 80% of siberian rescue we have had through!). It is shame we are no longer able to use a tool which has the ability to safely and humanely train dogs which may in other circumstances be unrehomeable.

While i don't use a prong collar on my male siberian anymore - i've resigned myself to get dragged along the street (the problem with running them in harness every winter), in the past when ever i brought out the prong collar my boy screamed his excitement and came to me with a smile and a tail wag. Not the hall marks of a cruel tool.

Edited December 13, 2007 by SilverHaze

[Erny]

A 2008 *bump*

Happy New Year! :rolleyes:

[oonga]

yes and for a positive and succesful outcome to the PRessure point collar in 2008!!!

[Erny]

*bump*

[Erny]

[Just Midol]

Deleted.

Edited January 28, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Jeff Jones]

Illegal to use.