Yarrowfell Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I am currently attempting (we have only been to two classes) to teach one of the Dalmatians Flyball. He is good at the jumps, can do them most of the time but we are having issues with getting the ball. He can (willingly) chase a ball but only if thrown. He will pick it up about 30% of the time and then bring it back 20% of that time. He wont go fetch the ball if it is stationary or only thrown a little way. He has been taught to go around an object (bucket) to start learning turns. I managed to borrow a old Flyball box and he has started pawing at the ball to get it out of the hole but doesn't realize that it he pushes it will come out. He know the command to go and "touch" his feet on the box. He is food motivate and has one toy that he really loves ( a furry rat). Any suggestion to get him to figure it all out? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Hi, I know you mentioned that your dog only has one toy they like, but does s/he like to play 'tug'. My girl is really ball motivated and we've had to work hard at getting her to tug, but now she LOVES it, to the point where she is quicker back to me than she is to the ball. She still hasn't done a full run as she's only young, but the tug thing has worked really well. Hope that helps. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Given that you only have had 2 lessons, you cant expect the dog to know things over night. Depending on your dog it can take months to years. A dog doesnt have to be ball mad to be good at flyball You can train the dog to see the ball as just a thing to bring back, but what you have is the reward not the ball or train the down and back as different exercises so the dog views the ball as the reward for going down and the tug/food as the reward for coming back. Alot of dogs in Australian flyball see the ball as the reward so will run down fast and lope back. If your dog doesnt like stationary balls, perhaps you could clicker train him to go to the ball, pick it up and eventually bring it back. This is what i had to do with one of mine. As you have a large dog, at this point in time i would personally be working on perfecting the turns rather then getting him to do things all at once. The method you are teaching the turns is not what i would do now for a big dog, you need a way that will teach your dog to do a flip off the box. Where abouts are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yarrowfell Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Given that you only have had 2 lessons, you cant expect the dog to know things over night. Depending on your dog it can take months to years.Where abouts are you located? Sorry if my post came over like that, I don’t want him to learn everything overnight but dallies are never great ball dogs so I just wanted suggestions on how to motivate him. Where abouts are you located? Canberra Hi,I know you mentioned that your dog only has one toy they like, but does s/he like to play 'tug'. Tony He is not really a”tugging” boy but I can try. Thanks. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 I'm not a fly ball person but I have a small fast dog so went to a clinic at our club. My dog wants food and me, couldn't care less about a ball. But he's 1/2 kelpie so it must be in there somewhere. The instructor suggested for dogs like mine- 1. Buy a ball or special toy 2. Hide it in the house 3. Each night suddenly jump up, get the ball, run around, get the dog all rev-ed. 4. When dog excited put toy away. Sit quietly. 5. Wait a while until all quiet and repeat. Continue with this until the dog thinks the ball must be sooo! good he wants it sooo!! much. 6. Then start the exercise most people use where the dog just has to touch the ball with a nose and treat. 7. So the dog touches the ball and gets a treat. Gradually go to picks ball up gets treat. And finally chases ball and gets treat. I don't know if this will help but it turned my really! uninterested dog into some keen little black flash. I know your dog does fetch but this exercise made mine mad for it. He will even retrieve from water. However he will only do a few at a time 100% and then will signal disinterest. So I stop. I did this for interest so don't think I'll go further with flyball but dog now has a great fetch. For turns we used a pole in the ground. Once the dog was good round the pole we place the pole in front of the box. The dog goes up the box round the pole and down again. My dog is small so I started at the box but yours could be turning maybe a little in front. Gradually ( again the gradually ) move pole to dog has to turn on box. Before this we threw the ball a dozen or so times to see what way a dog turns naturally. Like being left or right handed. Like I said I don't do flyball but I found this clinic interesting and the instructor 100% passionate about it! So I'm sure those experienced flyball bodies have a lot of hints ! Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Then i suggest using clicker to get your dog to pick the ball up. Also i would be removing all tennis balls from your yard (if there are any) and only bring them out for training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherezaball Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 the best way to teach a dog (especially one that doesnt naturally retrieve) a retrieve for flyball is by shaping it with a clicker. Like ALL exercises for flyball each exercise must be broken down and taught in tiny little links in a behaviour chain. Because flyball is one BIG behaviour chain. All links must be taught separately and then gradually linked together one at a time. This can as others have said take months to years. Depends on the dog and your experience. First thing is to learn the basics of clicker training. Most flyball clubs are using these methods these days. this link below is to Lonnie Olsen Dogscouts website. Check this out for heaps of great info. Also google Karen Pryor who is the queen of clicker training. Lonnie Olsen wrote a great flyball training book about 10 years ago now and many of the methods are still used today only modified slightly. But the principles are the same. The book is available on www.dogwise.com or www.amazon.com who sometimes have second hand copies going very cheaply (USD). There is also are website that shows how to teach an awesome swimmers turn. We have gone past the buckets, witches hats and sticks these days. Will try to find it and post it for you. I taught my BC using this method and he has a fast, efficient and most of all a safe turn i.e. all his 4 feet are on the box at once meaning he pushed off with his back feet and doesnt not slam the box with his shoulders. Which is how we orginally taught our dogs to do a turn. will try to find that swimmers turn website now... http://dogscouts.com/retrieve.shtml I am currently attempting (we have only been to two classes) to teach one of the Dalmatians Flyball. He is good at the jumps, can do them most of the time but we are having issues with getting the ball. He can (willingly) chase a ball but only if thrown. He will pick it up about 30% of the time and then bring it back 20% of that time. He wont go fetch the ball if it is stationary or only thrown a little way. He has been taught to go around an object (bucket) to start learning turns. I managed to borrow a old Flyball box and he has started pawing at the ball to get it out of the hole but doesn't realize that it he pushes it will come out. He know the command to go and "touch" his feet on the box. He is food motivate and has one toy that he really loves ( a furry rat). Any suggestion to get him to figure it all out? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherezaball Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Ok found the swimmers turn website. Should take you straight to turns but if it doesnt go to activities/training/turns These guys also promote alot of cross breeding specifically for flyball. Everyone has their own opinion on that. anyway this methods works VERY well for a tug toy motivated dog. We have used it for food motivated dogs but the handler needs to be very animated as well and the key is to have the dog at maximum "hype" without crossing that sometimes very thin line and loosing the dogs focus. checkout all the videos and give it a go. We started with the "HUP" exercise using plastic guttering from Bunnings. You buy a 2.4m piece and Bunnings cut it into 3 even pieces and build a pyramid type structure from that. http://bcsportdogs.com/Turns.html I am currently attempting (we have only been to two classes) to teach one of the Dalmatians Flyball. He is good at the jumps, can do them most of the time but we are having issues with getting the ball. He can (willingly) chase a ball but only if thrown. He will pick it up about 30% of the time and then bring it back 20% of that time. He wont go fetch the ball if it is stationary or only thrown a little way. He has been taught to go around an object (bucket) to start learning turns. I managed to borrow a old Flyball box and he has started pawing at the ball to get it out of the hole but doesn't realize that it he pushes it will come out. He know the command to go and "touch" his feet on the box. He is food motivate and has one toy that he really loves ( a furry rat). Any suggestion to get him to figure it all out? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJack Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 the best way to teach a dog (especially one that doesnt naturally retrieve) a retrieve for flyball is by shaping it with a clicker yes, I can vouch for this working. My Kelpie could do a full run but wasn't interested in the ball or she would pick it up but drop it on the way back. Didn't care at all about the ball. She was more interested in chasing another dog with a ball, not so much in chasing a thrown ball, which I avoid doing now anyway as you don't want your dog to be motivated to chase a moving ball when you'd rather they went and got a static ball. I clicker trained the retrieve by back chaining it and she won't stop bringing me balls now. Interestingly, she still doesn't want to chase a moving ball, just keep giving them to me for a reward. It took 3 weeks and she never drops it now. Her dinner stoppped being served in a bowl and she earned kibble while the behaviour was shaped with a clicker. Surprised me how effective it was as I'm fairly uncoordinated with the whole clicker thing. Once it was shown to me properly you can see the importance of clicking at exactly the right moment to mark the behaviour. Your eally need someone to show you so you don't click the wrong action. Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackborder Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 A good idea that i used with my food driven dog when he began to learn was to smear peanut butter all over the ball. He had to retrive it from the box, then he got to lick it as much as he wanted. it worked hope it helps U I am currently attempting (we have only been to two classes) to teach one of the Dalmatians Flyball. He is good at the jumps, can do them most of the time but we are having issues with getting the ball. He can (willingly) chase a ball but only if thrown. He will pick it up about 30% of the time and then bring it back 20% of that time. He wont go fetch the ball if it is stationary or only thrown a little way. He has been taught to go around an object (bucket) to start learning turns. I managed to borrow a old Flyball box and he has started pawing at the ball to get it out of the hole but doesn't realize that it he pushes it will come out. He know the command to go and "touch" his feet on the box. He is food motivate and has one toy that he really loves ( a furry rat). Any suggestion to get him to figure it all out? Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 Read the training information in those sites Wherezaball. Much thought / experience seems to have gone into these training methods. Thanks, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted June 20, 2007 Share Posted June 20, 2007 I find the two toys game really good for getting drive. Tia was not interested in the ball much so clicker trained her. Also in the morning before she gets fed I would throw the ball and as soon as she returned it she got her food. I also did only a couple of ball throws a day before she got sick of it. Springloaded has a great DVD out on training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Can anyone (briefly) say how they shape the retrieveing behavior with a clicker? For example, when do you click (when they run after it, pick it up, give it back...)? If they run after it and don't pick it up how do you shape it to pick it up? Do you ever pick it up for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherezaball Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 Laffi I have word document detailing each step. Send me your real email address and I will forward it. Thanks Can anyone (briefly) say how they shape the retrieveing behavior with a clicker? For example, when do you click (when they run after it, pick it up, give it back...)? If they run after it and don't pick it up how do you shape it to pick it up? Do you ever pick it up for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatevah Posted June 21, 2007 Share Posted June 21, 2007 (edited) http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/retrieve.html work through all the steps. Here is the two toys method, filmed today with Tia. She used not even chase after a ball. Edited June 23, 2007 by CrashTestDummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now