Erny Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 Thanks Rom. Only a few submissions/reports/stores have come in so far - I'd love to receive a stack more. Some things came up over the last week which has prevented me from dedicating my time to this project - but that's life, and that's why I am not going to place a dead-line on getting the official submission completed, other than to say I'd like it to be completed as soon as possible. But to this end, I am reliant of submissions .... lots and lots of them, from others who have something to say about it. Thanks for bumping this thread up - it's something I've been meaning and intended to do. In the next couple of weeks I intend to contact another group and also one or two of the contacts that have been recommended to me. Hoping to get a good amount of activity from them. But as I say - at the moment the response via DOL has been very thin on the ground. But we all have busy lives - there is still time. Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 We will do one asap- i promise!! Too much to do with two few hours in the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 29, 2007 Author Share Posted June 29, 2007 ;) No, seriously - that's ok. In the next 2 - 3 weeks is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Hmm, I've been looking at the Vic legislation, & I think one of the main stumbling points of the pro-prong debate might just be quantified research. So far, it seems that the pro-prong submissions have had only anecdotal evidence as to their benefits, conversely the anti-prong gang had a wealth of published research to back up their claims...Does anyone here have good access to a university database? I do, just logged in to our university website and had a look at several databases, but couldn't find any studies mentioning prong collars on dogs. Several articles about headcollars, and a few about ecollars, but none about prongs. Sorry. The bright side of that, I guess, is that as far as I can find there are no studies out there showing that prongs cause injuries or distress. So the people wanting to ban prong collars will have no scientific evidence to show that they are harmful. But I was wondering, does anyone here have a copy of Steven Lindsay's 3 big books? I remember that he talks about prongs at one point, and his books contain references, so perhaps some papers on prongs are listed in the index there? Another useful thing to do might be to find out if any Australian police departments use prong collars to train their dogs. Pointing out in the submission that the police use prong collars to train their dogs, would surely increase the 'respectability' of the prong collar in the minds of the decision panel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 But I was wondering, does anyone here have a copy of Steven Lindsay's 3 big books? I remember that he talks about prongs at one point, and his books contain references, so perhaps some papers on prongs are listed in the index there? Good thinking. Steven Lindsay makes two references in Volume 3 of this books. Unfortunately what he writes doesn't add much to the submission - more it talks in brief of how they are used. Although that in itself could be noted in reference in the submission to govt. Reading through his own list of references I could only find one article that might have had anything to do with prongs, but unfortunately it ended up being a comparison of the flat collar and a head-collar. There may well be some information in any one of the many many references given by Steven, but the titles that I've glanced at don't really give a hint this is the case. Another useful thing to do might be to find out if any Australian police departments use prong collars to train their dogs. Pointing out in the submission that the police use prong collars to train their dogs, would surely increase the 'respectability' of the prong collar in the minds of the decision panel? Thank you. I will check that up. My mind and eyes are really tired tonight - I'm sure I have read about what equipment the Aussie Police Dogs wear in training, but I can't rightly remember just now. Thanks Am. Good suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 You're welcome & good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 6, 2007 Author Share Posted July 6, 2007 (edited) A *bump* for more submissions via email, for those who recognise the benefits of and want to see the legislation changed. NSW people (and other States, where the power chain is not banned) - we need you. Edited July 6, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 (edited) Ok - submissions are still very thin on the ground, but I'm doing what I can to target this submission appropriately. At the good suggestion of a person HR put me in contact with, I'm making an application to FOI for information pertaining to documents/reports that were submitted to the minister, as well as such that was given to the Animal Welfare Advisory Committee in support of and when the move to have prong collars banned in Victoria was made. The fee for the application is $22.00. I can wear that. But they also charge $20.00 per hour for searching for the information sought, as well as $5.00 per hour supervision charges as well as 20c per page of photo copying (A4). Of course, I won't know how much the total will come to because I don't know how difficult it will be to search for the info nor how much info is there and can't promise that I can fund the total expense on my own. So I need to ask if others will help finance the fee by division or donation when the time comes - regardless of the final outcome of our current attempt. Edited July 31, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 So I need to ask if others will help finance the fee by division or donation when the time comes - regardless of the final outcome of our current attempt. You can count me in for a donation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Even though I've really overstepped my budget this year (its not all bad...I learned how to make a can of braised steak and onions last for 3 meals ) I'll be happy to help where I can. I'm looking to an improvement soon so count me in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapferhund Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Yeah count me in too. It won't be much but as the old saying goes ,"Every little bit helps said the mosquito as he peed into the ocean." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 BTW Erny, I hopefully have one or 2 submissions coming to you by snail mail. The second oeron I only just caught up with yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted July 31, 2007 Author Share Posted July 31, 2007 (edited) Yeah count me in too. It won't be much but as the old saying goes ,"Every little bit helps said the mosquito as he peed into the ocean." Thanks Tapferhund. And thanks everyone else who's already put their hands up - Jeff and Rom. Naturally, the more the merrier cheaper. The hard part is that until FOI do the search, I don't know how much it will be. I'll be in touch - but in the meantime, for all those others who would like to take advantage of new legislation to allow prong collars, it will be helpful if we can know the support will also be there - both of donation and your written submissions. I know money doesn't grow on trees and we all have our financial stresses. But I feel we need to try. Thanks Rom - will look out for the posty. Edited July 31, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted July 31, 2007 Share Posted July 31, 2007 Definately count me in for a donation too!! Would really like to see the legislation changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulmate Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Hi, count me in too. My dog just gets loaded up if I use an inappropriate collar. I want to have the freedom to do what's best for him and me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 Thank you . I sent off the application for FOI to the DPI a week ago. I have to wait 45 days for a response. In this respect, I'll be back here to let everyone know the result. In the meantime, I'm still open (and needing) written stories/submissions (as per post #1 .... by direct email please) from anyone and everyone who would like to (a) have the current Vic legislation changed to "restricted use" (as opposed to "ban") and (b) from those who are in a position to assist even though in their particular State the legislation doesn't affect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 11, 2007 Author Share Posted August 11, 2007 I'm trying to contact Herm Sprenger (Germany) but only seem to be able to find places that sell his wares .... There was one link to what seemed like it might have been a direct web-site, but it only gave details of some of the equipment he manufactures - no contact information. I contacted one of the stores that stocks and sell his products asking them if they have a link - but they said they didn't. Anyone else know or can find a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) here ooops I think this is the link that you found erny? Edited August 11, 2007 by Jeff Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 (edited) Yup, http://www.sprenger.de When the page loads there is a contact link on the left hand side. Don't forget to click on the English flag...unless you can read German of course :cool: ETA: you beat me Jeff. Edited August 11, 2007 by Rom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Contact info HERM. SPRENGER GMBH METALLWARENFABRIK z. H. ANDREA WIECZOREK ALEXANDERSTR. 10 – 21 58644 ISERLOHN Tel. (0 23 71) 95 59 54 Fax (0 23 71) 95 59 60 E-Mail: [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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