MonElite Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Erny, back to the topic, I suggest also including any information about the actual physics of the prong collar itself. And how about a bit of a talk aobut different types, the half prongs, how the spikes are or are not rounded off for comfort, the rubber tips, the plastic prongs etc. Im happy to find pics of different styles for you if you would like me to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rom Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Is there a word limit on the reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 A: People who use them for so called Drive training where the dog is chained to a tree with this collar then teased with a toy or food until their spirit is broken and they become fearfuly subserviant. K9: In some cases, dogs may be back tied to increase frustration, this is usually done when the dog is wearing a very wide collar or harness, the dog also may wear a prong collar but the back tie wont be attached to it, as corections are designed to reduce / extinguish drive, not ncrease it. A dog with a broken spirit is one that will not train in drive, so perhaps you have been watching some type of training that you dont understand? A: There are a thousand other ways to train your dog without resorting to torture. K9: & that would include a thousand other ways than yours Andy.. A: I've never had to resort to any form of punnishment or force to train any dog that I've had in my life and all of my dogs are well behaved and respect me. K9: How many dogs are we talking? did you have all your dogs from pups? Perhaps you might be willing to show some of the people on here that have problems with their dogs how you can fix them? A: My idea is if you wouldn't do it to yourself or someone you love, don't do it to the dog. K9: Do you put collars of any type on your dogs? Then would that mean that you put collars on or loved ones? Do you micro chip your dogs? Family? Dracdog: Problems with Halties only occur if they are incorectly fitted or used. K9: This sentence may be better if it read "most problems with haltis". As unfortunatley, they can cause neck injuries no matter how well they are fitted... D: They have been used for hundreds of years on horses cattle sheep goats and other lead livestock with out a problem. K9: whilst this is correct, dogs arent horses cattle sheep goats and other lead livestock. D: I have used them on a couple of my dogs and found no problems arising from thier use. K9: no offence but a couple of dogs isnt really a test worth considering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Thanks Arya - I have already included the "physics" of the prong-collar in my (incomplete) draft bulletted (sp?) page. I agree that photo's and even videos would be a good back-up to the contents of the submission. Good idea. I will most likely concentrate on that side of things once the submission is pretty much in place. But if anyone has anything like this they'd like to contribute in the meantime, I'd welcome your contact. Myszka .... thanks for your thoughts too. Although modified versions of the prong will not form a major point of the submission, it is possible these variations can be mentioned. But I don't really want to take the attention away from our request that the ban be lifted on the prong itself. All good ideas and these are appreciated. I need these, but what I also need - badly - are reports/submissions in relation to each or any of the above categories. So anything you can send through, please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 In NSW you can buy and use them - but only licensed (?) trainers are allowed to supply them....the idea being that they ensure your responsible enough to use it correctly and to show you how. Can someone provide me the relevant section of the NSW Act that prescribes this? If I can suggest wording for the govt to use, it might make it even easier for them to agree to adjust the legislation as it presently stands here in Vic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Personally I hope these are totaly banned. from what I've seen they are a Cruel and unnecessary training aid. People who use them for so called Drive training where the dog is chained to a tree with this collar then teased with a toy or food until their spirit is broken and they become fearfuly subserviant. There are a thousand other ways to train your dog without resorting to torture. I've never had to resort to any form of punnishment or force to train any dog that I've had in my life and all of my dogs are well behaved and respect me. My idea is if you wouldn't do it to yourself or someone you love, don't do it to the dog. What? I think you have your wires crossed. You do not repremand a dog during drive training and a dog gets put on a flat collar. I think you have been mislead and are uneducated on this topic which I feel is very sad. Oh and I have put a prong collar on myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Please STOP!!! This is not the thread to discuss why prongs are ok (or for those others who disapprove, "or not"). Take that discussion (if you want to do it all again) to another thread ..... please. It is enough that I am going to be trying to collate information for the submission. I don't need to wade through people's discussions (albeit that they may well hold merit) as well. If people want to post saying they don't like prongs, please ignore them, or take it up with them via a new thread. The rest already know and understand the virtues of a prong-collar. If the others want to find out more about them, they can use the search engines for old discussions or start another thread. But that is not the purpose of this one. Please respect that. Or I will too easily become confused with my information gathering efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Erny,I respect what your doing.Good on you for being proactive and not reactive.All the best with your Mission. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Erny,I respect what your doing.Good on you for being proactive and not reactive.All the best with your Mission. Tony Thanks Tony. But I need people's submissions, so don't be leaving town. :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
^^PIP^^ Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Email Sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Can someone provide me the relevant section of the NSW Act that prescribes this? I think this is covered under Australia Federal Legislation?? Mr K9 Force would know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Can someone provide me the relevant section of the NSW Act that prescribes this? I think this is covered under Australia Federal Legislation?? Mr K9 Force would know. Thanks Jeff. Mr. K9 Force ...... yoooo whooo !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) Email Sent Not received yet PIP ?????? Will check again shortly, just in case it's on its way. Edited June 19, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Submissions/stories by the general pet-dog owner - stories of their own use, including failures before use and successes after use (of the prong) i will write one if you need... doing good erny, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 (edited) Submissions/stories by the general pet-dog owner - stories of their own use, including failures before use and successes after use (of the prong)i will write one if you need... Yes, yes and yes. Please. Will look forward to receiving your email. Address is in OP. Edited June 19, 2007 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Email Sent Not received yet PIP ?????? Will check again shortly, just in case it's on its way. Have it now. Thanks PIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 19, 2007 Author Share Posted June 19, 2007 Are you going to include pictures & xrays in the submission? If there are any available that people can get hold of, then yes, this is something I'd like to include. But remember - the design of the submission is not necessarily to highlight how bad other pieces of equipment are - more about how much better the prong collar can be and why taking away its use is not advantageous to dogs or their owners. Once I've got Roggie up & running, did you want me to write a testimonial? We'd only be happy to do so Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frau Rottweiler Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Erny, I can't look into it at work (shouldnt be on here now as it is!). But I'll have a look for info tonight. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 In NSW you can buy and use them - but only licensed (?) trainers are allowed to supply them....the idea being that they ensure your responsible enough to use it correctly and to show you how. Can someone provide me the relevant section of the NSW Act that prescribes this? If I can suggest wording for the govt to use, it might make it even easier for them to agree to adjust the legislation as it presently stands here in Vic. It's very hard to find this info, I tried in the past. As Steve pointed out to me, as they're not illegal, you won't find any legislation stating that they're not banned. Much the same as trying to find proof that ice cream is legal! [sorry to paraphrase you Steve, it was something along those lines!!!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Hi Erny, Obviously you have my support. Andy, what a rediculous comment. Please back up your argument with fact or science rather than emotive banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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