Incontinence

[Henrietta]

Hi all,

My nan's GSDxKelpie girl is seven years old and is starting to leak ocassionally in the house. Probably about three times a day.

I have recommend that nan see a vet to diagnose this and treat the problem.

I thought that it could be a UTI. Isn't seven years old a little too young to become incontinent? I know it can happen in younger dogs and some are even born like that (so I have heard), but is this common? Would it more likely be an UTI?

She is quite healthy in every other way, but she is a bit overweight (which I am trying to help nan to rectify at the moment).

Another question is that I have noticed that when I take her for a walk she seems to 'mark' ocassionally. That is squat down and do a tiny pee. Is this actually marking? Or another sign of her incontinence or UTI?

I have always had desex females, but I have never had one 'mark' on a walk, not that that means much, it could be actually the norm for desexed bitches to 'mark'. I just wanted to know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

[cavNrott]

Hi all,

My nan's GSDxKelpie girl is seven years old and is starting to leak ocassionally in the house. Probably about three times a day.

I have recommend that nan see a vet to diagnose this and treat the problem.

I thought that it could be a UTI. Isn't seven years old a little too young to become incontinent? I know it can happen in younger dogs and some are even born like that (so I have heard), but is this common? Would it more likely be an UTI?

She is quite healthy in every other way, but she is a bit overweight (which I am trying to help nan to rectify at the moment).

Another question is that I have noticed that when I take her for a walk she seems to 'mark' ocassionally. That is squat down and do a tiny pee. Is this actually marking? Or another sign of her incontinence or UTI?

I have always had desex females, but I have never had one 'mark' on a walk, not that that means much, it could be actually the norm for desexed bitches to 'mark'. I just wanted to know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

My Rottie girls will mark whilst walking and do the turf scratch as well.

You need to get a sample of urine from the dog and take dog and the sample to the vet. It sounds like incontinence to me but it could be a UTI. If it is a UTI then it's a painful condition and the dog needs to see a vet.

[Henrietta]

My Rottie girls will mark whilst walking and do the turf scratch as well.

You need to get a sample of urine from the dog and take dog and the sample to the vet. It sounds like incontinence to me but it could be a UTI. If it is a UTI then it's a painful condition and the dog needs to see a vet.

Thanks Cavnrott.

I have told nan to see a vet, I am more worried about it being a UTI, (although having said that can incontinence be painful? I didn't think so, but I wouldn't want to not take her to the vet even if we already knew it was incontinence just to be safe). I will talk to nan again today, if it were my dog, I would have had her at the vet on first notice of this.

ETA - it was first noticed on Wednesday, but when I thought about all the marking on the walk, I was trying to put two and two together.

Edited June 16, 2007 by Emmala

[cavNrott]

Thanks Cavnrott.

I have told nan to see a vet, I am more worried about it being a UTI, (although having said that can incontinence be painful? I didn't think so, but I wouldn't want to not take her to the vet even if we already knew it was incontinence just to be safe). I will talk to nan again today, if it were my dog, I would have had her at the vet on first notice of this.

Incontinence isn't painful, the dog is unaware that it's happening. However when they do discover it they're not happy about it. House trained dogs don't like to mess inside. Incontinence can be easily managed with medication, it sure beats the smell of stale urine in the house.

If your Nan is a bit reluctant to take her dog to the vet I think I would be pushing the UTI aspect and emphasising that UTI's are painful. She might be more inclined if she thinks her dog could be in pain.

[Henrietta]

Thanks Cavnrott.

I have told nan to see a vet, I am more worried about it being a UTI, (although having said that can incontinence be painful? I didn't think so, but I wouldn't want to not take her to the vet even if we already knew it was incontinence just to be safe). I will talk to nan again today, if it were my dog, I would have had her at the vet on first notice of this.

Incontinence isn't painful, the dog is unaware that it's happening. However when they do discover it they're not happy about it. House trained dogs don't like to mess inside. Incontinence can be easily managed with medication, it sure beats the smell of stale urine in the house.

If your Nan is a bit reluctant to take her dog to the vet I think I would be pushing the UTI aspect and emphasising that UTI's are painful. She might be more inclined if she thinks her dog could be in pain.

Well, that is good news all around, knowing that incontinence is easy to treat, I can imagine that dogs wouldn't be at all happy about this. Going where they wouldn't dream of going before and not having the control.

That is a good angle to try and convince nan (maybe I am overreacting and she won't need much convincing). She certainly wouldn't like to think that it is something that is causing her dog pain.

This is going to sound terrible, but I think it is the money aspect which makes her reluctant initially. I am sure we could work something out though in that respect, I am a firm believer that if you can't afford to take your dog to the vets for routine checkups or when there is something wrong, then you shouldn't own an animal. I will tactifully approach this situation despite my views.

Thanks for your advice Cavnrott.

[morgan]

Incontinence isn't always easy to treat - some respond to medication, others don't.

If it isn't a UTI and the vet diagnoses incontinence consider speaking to Robert McDowell about his incontinent mix for treatment. She is young to be put on drugs for the rest of her life.

BTW - spay incontinence has been found on average to occur within 2.9 yrs of being desexed, so age is immaterial.

[Henrietta]

Ok thanks Morgan, I'll keep that name in mind and will do some research once we know the diagnosis.

[Henrietta]

Gremlins

Edited June 16, 2007 by Emmala

[Henrietta]

Actually I should ask, what kind of medication is used to treat incontinence commonly?

What are the side effect if any?

Is the medication itself that horrible that it is unfair to have a dog on them for the rest of her life - I feel that 7 is quite young, she is pretty much in her prime really isn't she?

Is Robert Macdowell's treatment an all natural remedy?

[MolassesLass]

Be prepared for lots of opinions. Do do your own research, speak to a professional you trust and go from there.

Actually I should ask, what kind of medication is used to treat incontinence commonly?

I believe the most commonly used is Stilboestrol tablets. A cheap medication that is synthetic hormones (basically HRT for dogs). Some dogs may need to try something else as this is the most conservative medication option.

What are the side effect if any?

I was given a list that were significant but my vet also said in 30+ years he's only had one dog suffer side effects that resolved when the treatment was stopped. That doesn't mean that your dog won't have any though. ;)

Is the medication itself that horrible that it is unfair to have a dog on them for the rest of her life - I feel that 7 is quite young, she is pretty much in her prime really isn't she?

Many people will say no, many will say yes. I haven't made the decision myself yet but I probably would (due to the experiences of trusted contacts). Seven is middle-aged for a mediumish dog IMO. A GSD's lifespan is around 13 years and Kelpies around 14 years.

Is Robert Macdowell's treatment an all natural remedy?

While searching for incontinence treatments a few weeks ago, I came across it. It's supposed to work after a 28 day treatment (costing $50). Which would be great but if it didn't premanently resolve the problem the Stilboestrol would work out cheaper (if you are happy with the possible risks and their likelyhoods).

[Henrietta]

Thanks for that Molasseslass.

Seems like I am in for a lot of research. The first step will be to find out what my nan's dog has exactly and then go from there.

But it certainly wouldn't hurt to be prepared and armed ready to ask the vet as well about as many different treatments as possible.

I understand what you are saying about side effects. They do seem rare in your experience, but you don't want to say that it couldn't happen of course. With the Stilboestrol.

I do like the sound of the 28 day treatment at this stage, but nan would have to weigh up the benefits of this, with the price as well, especially if it didn't work. Having said that it seems that it would be worth a try to have a go at stopping the incontinence permenantly.

[MolassesLass]

My topic from a few weeks ago has a link to the natural option - Spay Incontinence.

But it certainly wouldn't hurt to be prepared and armed ready to ask the vet as well about as many different treatments as possible.

It's a very good idea for anything IMO. Good luck.

[Henrietta]

Oooh thanks for the link!

It mentions a number of different treatments as well.

[Dogsfevr]

If its UTI & not treated it can become a very expensive problem if not sorted early.

If its incontinience then again its better to find a treatment to fix it now.We have clients using propalin with great success,no one here has used stilbestrol for years as it does have serious side effects.

Theres alos another tab a client tried bit it also can have bad side effects

[Wyhldher]

Hm. We went through the whole gauntlet of incontinent drama, and from my experience, meds don't work in treating the problem, it seems that they just control it (until it doesn't even do that, and you have to start mucking around with dosages and stuff.) I seem to have completely gotten rid of it by a low purine diet (easy enough to find on the net) - which means completely removing things like heart, beef, oats, peas, sardines, and tuna. Lamb, roo, chicken are good; 5000mg fish oil a day seems to seal the deal. Sometimes the whole incontinence thing can be triggered by an emotional thing (change in environment, loss of familiar people or things) and Bach Flower Rescue Remedy can help here. I'd give it all a go before having to resort to a lifetime of hormone tablets; like you, I think 7 is a bit young to have to go down that track, and the experience for Spot the Dog when I was at the end of my lead with it, was that she put on about 3kg in a very short amount of time, and was very unhappy and lethargic on them. I wonder whether the extra weight puts pressure on the bladder, because dosage had to be changed about a million times to keep striking the right balance. Anyway, she just got to a point where she refused to take them (I found she'd be pretending to take them, and then spitting them out and hiding them under a blanket - did I laugh, or did I LAUGH) so I figured 'physician, heal thyself' was definitely the message there, so down the research track I went. Hope that helps in some way; be prepared for trial and error, but the longterm payoff is worth it when they're system obviously finds balance again without the dependence on meds (and at about $40 a month for the rest of their life - who needs it?!)

Good luck, and diluted white vinegar spray gets rid of the smells and stains in the meantime!

[Wyhldher]

Oh! And organic apple cider vinegar in her water every day. I'll shut up now!

[Poodle wrangler]

While I wouldn't want my dog to take medication for the rest of his life, I think treating incontinence is a very valid reason to do so. It's not something I'd like to live with with a dog who spend time indoors .

Can a DOLer recommend a good vet in your Nan's area? Then, she can discuss the situation with them. Many medications require some trial and error, and it also depends on cause of incontinence.

Best wishes :p .

[rose of tralee]

Just an anecdotal observation in our old girl's case: 13 yo Dal. She has dried up almost completely from major puddles despite regular outdoors trips and observations of piddling to very occasional minor leaks with a change in diet. All grains and dry food were removed in January. FWIW.

Good luck with helping your nan, and her dog!

[Wyhldher]

Just an anecdotal observation in our old girl's case: 13 yo Dal. She has dried up almost completely from major puddles despite regular outdoors trips and observations of piddling to very occasional minor leaks with a change in diet. All grains and dry food were removed in January. FWIW.

Ah, rose of tralee - great to see some support for the cause!