Opinions / Advice In Regards To Heart Murmurs

[Stormy]

My latest foster boy (approx 10 years old) was diagnosed with a grade 4 heart murmur yesterday morning, and from what I gathered the outlook was grim. Today I went and got a second opinion (not that I don't trust the first vets diagnosis, but just wanted another opinion re care /outlook etc)

One vet said medication at this point wasn't going to really help and the other vet agreed. One vet did say though once symptoms are presenting (coughing, tiredness, fainting etc) medication would then help.

One vet said he shouldn't have any exercise at all, the other said 1/2 hour a day to keep him fit would better his odds at a longer life.

One vet said he could drop dead anytime (one day, one week, or one year from now - i.e.; at anytime) the other said that's he's just as likely to live for quite sometime (read years) and not to stress too much.

I've gone to thinking his death was imminent, no exertion no meds, to wondering if he's likely to be around three to four years from now, a small amount of exercise, and meds when the time came. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting his to live for another 8 years (though I suppose he may always surprise ) due to the fact he's already approx 10. So I was thinking quality of life over quantity (years).

I have no experience with heart murmurs and was wondering if anyone else had advice / experience that they may be able to share.

Edited June 15, 2007 by Stormy

[greychicken]

Hi, I had a boy with Cardio Myopathy.

He had a similar prognosis, could last a week, a month a year, ten years......

He was on medication to reduce the fluid build up around his heart, was allowed to exercise but I moderated that carefully as his capacity reduced.

He wanted to run and play but just couldn't cope with it in the end.

I feel that the medication helped, made him more comfortable, reduced the coughing.

He was on Frudix tablets and Endep ( an anti-anxiety medication as he had seperation anxiety as well and it calmed him down a little )

It is a touch and go thing, sadly my boy didn't have long ( 1 month after diagnosis )

Just let him do what makes him happy, he will let you know when it is too much for him.

I really feel for you having recently lost my darling boy to this problem.

Go with your gut, don't overdo it and medicate him if it is available, can't hurt at any rate.

I wish you both all the best and hope that he has a long and happy time ahead of him.

[anniek]

Hi Stormy,

Is your foster a greyhound?

If so, has this condition been diagnosed by a greyhound vet?

I ask because greyhounds commonly tend to have an slightly overdeveloped ventricle, and can often be misdiagnosed as a heart murmour,or having an enlarged heart.

A greyhound that we adopted out was taken to a local vet during the summer and was diagnosed with a heart murmour, a pathologically enlarged heart and fluid surronding the heart. The vet prescribed diuretics. The greyhound almost died as she actually was suffering from heat stress and the diuretics made the condition worse.

Annie

My latest foster boy (approx 10 years old) was diagnosed with a grade 4 heart murmur yesterday morning, and from what I gathered the outlook was grim. Today I went and got a second opinion (not that I don't trust the first vets diagnosis, but just wanted another opinion re care /outlook etc)

One vet said medication at this point wasn't going to really help and the other vet agreed. One vet did say though once symptoms are presenting (coughing, tiredness, fainting etc) medication would then help.

One vet said he shouldn't have any exercise at all, the other said 1/2 hour a day to keep him fit would better his odds at a longer life.

One vet said he could drop dead anytime (one day, one week, or one year from now - i.e.; at anytime) the other said that's he's just as likely to live for quite sometime (read years) and not to stress too much.

I've gone to thinking his death was imminent, no exertion no meds, to wondering if he's likely to be around three to four years from now, a small amount of exercise, and meds when the time came. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting his to live for another 8 years (though I suppose he may always surprise ) due to the fact he's already approx 10. So I was thinking quality of life over quantity (years).

I have no experience with heart murmurs and was wondering if anyone else had advice / experience that they may be able to share.

[New Age Outlaw]

Hi Stormy,

Is your foster a greyhound?

I think the foster in question is quite a lot shorter than a greyhound! http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=103980

Edited June 15, 2007 by New Age Outlaw

[MissMonaro]

our old dog had a heart murmur (not sure of the grade) but he lived till he was 15 1/2 (no medication for it either)

We recently gave a puppy away that was diagnosed with a grade 4 heart murmur. The couple had dearly fell in love with her and still wanted her even though I told them the same grim outlook - that she could have one week, one month, one year, 6 years.........all unknown.

They have taken her to a specialist to see what could be done, and at this stage he has said he will re-evaluate her again at 2 years of age.

They know that her time is limited...but we discussed it all and my only option was to PTS, but they decided they would give her what quality of life they could.

[anniek]

Hi Stormy,

Is your foster a greyhound?

I think the foster in question is quite a lot shorter than a greyhound! http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?showtopic=103980

- yep you're right

just that greychicken has a greyhound and he/she replied so yunno I put 2 and 2 together and got 4 very short legs.!

Annie

[Stormy]

greychicken - Sorry to hear you lost you boy so soon after diagnosis Was he already showing symptoms when he was diagnosed? I'm kind of holding out hope that because this boy so far shows no symptoms he may still have a quite some time up his sleeve.....but I suppose that's not a given either.

anniek - he'd be the slowest "greyhound" in the history of the breed even with leg extensions ;) He is ,as NAO pointed out, infact a standard Dachshund (or squashed rotti / dwarf Dobe )

I ask because greyhounds commonly tend to have an slightly overdeveloped ventricle, and can often be misdiagnosed as a heart murmour,or having an enlarged heart.

Does anyone know if Dachshunds are prone to heart murmurs / conditions ?

This is the boy in question

MissMonaro - You've had both sides of the coin Really sorry to hear about you pup, it must be hard knowing that they should have a long life ahead of them but won't, really happy to hear too though that there was a special family who are wanting to treasure her for the time she does have.

[The Spotted Devil]

Sorry I don't know anything about heart murmurs in Dachshunds (gorgeous lad!) but my old Burmese cat had cardiomyopathy diagnosed when she was about 8 years old - it nearly killed her then. The vet gave exactly the same conflicting advice....could be anytime or it could be years....some animals just seem to respond to the drugs quite dramatically. We were lucky and Willow kept going to 18! Good luck with your lad!

[Tunsafun Boxers]

My jack russell X whippet was diagnosed with a heart murmur at 3 years old. Im not sure what grade.

She went onto medication eventually, at about 11 i think, and lived to be 16.

our old Boffa (recently passed away) had a serious heart murmur and was diagnosed at about 4 years old. he passed at the age of 10 or 11. He was a rescue so im not sure

he never went onto medication.

[Jed]

A heart murmur is different from cardio myopathy. Some dogs are born with murmurs and live quite happy lives. TBCSITW has a bad double sided murmur which was discovered when he went to be vaccinated at 6 weeks. He is 6 now, and his life is not affected.

I had always been aware that he could have shorter life, or that he need medication when he develops symptoms. Quite a lot of dogs have murmurs, but their lives are not affected.

The dog could have many happy years ahead of him.

[mita]

A heart murmur is different from cardio myopathy. Some dogs are born with murmurs and live quite happy lives. TBCSITW has a bad double sided murmur which was discovered when he went to be vaccinated at 6 weeks. He is 6 now, and his life is not affected.

I had always been aware that he could have shorter life, or that he need medication when he develops symptoms. Quite a lot of dogs have murmurs, but their lives are not affected.

The dog could have many happy years ahead of him.

Well said. Much the same scenario can apply to people.

[MissMonaro]

MissMonaro - You've had both sides of the coin Really sorry to hear about you pup, it must be hard knowing that they should have a long life ahead of them but won't, really happy to hear too though that there was a special family who are wanting to treasure her for the time she does have.

It was the first one we've had and I was devestated. The people were given back their deposit on said pup and told they were under absolutely no obligations whatsoever etc. But I was glad that they decided to still take her and cherish what time they could have. Lovely lovely people too, so it was heartbreaking to have to tell them.

When my bitch was pregnant, towards the end, they said one pups heartrate was not stable and when they got them out (c-section), one of them was in the gunk (problems with bitch). We now are thinking it must of been this one. She was sick as a wee pup and we put them all on a course of antibiotics, not knowing exactly what was wrong then. Although she was tiny, she progressed well and so we did not expect anything was wrong.

After that, sometimes it makes you sit up and think how much you should interfere and wonder if we made the right decision to save her back then.

The specialists report said that it could be due to an incomplete valve in one side of the heart (without looking I'm sure thats what it was). They can operate, but at such a young age its too much to put her through. So hence why they will check again as she gets older and re-assess then.

I wish you well with your dog also.

[greychicken]

Hi Stormy, my little one was only young, he would have been 2 on Tuesday had he made it that long

He showed no symptoms when he came into foster, was only discovered when he was put under for desexing.

Vet was surprised given the severity that he came out of the op at all.

I could actually feel how bad it was, his heart would beat irregularly and then stop, then really fast, really slow.....

Same theory applies though, there was a grey I was told about that had much the same thing and he made it to 8 or so and his passing was totally unrelated to his heart condition.

I have since heard of many dogs and cats that continue on as normal with murmurs, lets just hope your boy is one of them!

EFS

Edited June 16, 2007 by greychicken