poodlefan Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 ML: 4. reverential awe, esp. toward God. Wow! I wouldn't have picked you for a God complex ML! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 Wow! I wouldn't have picked you for a God complex ML! Does "esp." not stand for "especially"? What have I inadvertently said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) Wow! I wouldn't have picked you for a God complex ML! Does "esp." not stand for "especially"? What have I inadvertently said? It does. Just having a giggle at that definition of "fear" used in a dog training context. i.e. handler = God. Edited June 14, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MolassesLass Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 (edited) Oh ok, phew! We'll stick to using the verb version then, no god there. I think my dogs do think I'm godlike, I don't mind. Edited June 14, 2007 by molasseslass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 So many posts and I do not know how to multiple quote (still LOL). Every experienced trainer I have ever spoken to feels that positive trainers achieve 95% success with their dogs, those who mix methods achieve 99%. Do trainers who have achieved their top goals agree? All say novice positive trainers take lesser risks, except for the dog in the case of food rewards, can get fat. I do think WS and for example Herr R, have come across some hard wired dogs, who may thrive on pressure and excitement. Lets say a working keplie or border collie, is rake conditioning, considered positive? Onward bound we go. Interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 ML: I think my dogs do think I'm godlike, I don't mind. My dogs worship the fridge and the microwave I think... two endless sources of bounty. They like the car a lot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelpie-i Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 LL: Lets say a working keplie or border collie, is rake conditioning, considered positive? LL, what exactly do you mean by rake conditioning? In what context do you refer it to ie. using the rake to guide the dog back and over or do you refer to something else?? So many posts and I do not know how to multiple quote (still LOL). Don't worry, you're not the only one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 So many posts and I do not know how to multiple quote (still LOL). So many posts and I do not know how to multiple quote (still LOL). Don't worry, you're not the only one I wil be sending you LL an emial with the detailed instuctions on how to do it. Stand by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 LL, what exactly do you mean by rake conditioning? In what context do you refer it to ie. using the rake to guide the dog back and over Don't worry, you're not the only one Yes. To tell you the truth, I have no idea, why the question even popped into my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Rottweiler Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I think my dogs do think I'm godlike, I don't mind. Neither do I! It makes the whole co-existence function very well I do think WS and for example Herr R, have come across some hard wired dogs, who may thrive on pressure and excitement. I've seen the extremes on both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. When pressure is required, obviously it's given. When sensitivity & confidence is evident, why wouldn't you use these tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted June 14, 2007 Share Posted June 14, 2007 I've seen the extremes on both ends of the spectrum and everything in between. When pressure is required, obviously it's given. When sensitivity & confidence is evident, why wouldn't you use these tools. I agree with using any tool which helps the dog. Mind you when I first visited the US and observed force fetch for weeks on end during basics training, I was lucky I wearing sunglasses to hide my tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 I wish very much that all of you had been able to attend a recent e collar seminar i went to with Bart Bellon on the Gold coast. Put a whole new spin on using an e collar and every dog that he demonstrated with improved their attitude/ confidence with the e collar- some had been positively trained, some had not. Some of the things he said were like revelations- and this is to someone who had been 'taught' how to use an e collar correctly- i was wrong and happy to admit it. And it is not that hard to wean off an e collar. Cosmolo - do you know if this seminar is being given anywhere else in Oz? TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Cosmolo - do you know if this seminar is being given anywhere else in Oz? No it isn't, at this stage, to my knowledge, WS. Although I will be checking out further shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Cosmolo - do you know if this seminar is being given anywhere else in Oz? No it isn't, at this stage, to my knowledge, WS. Although I will be checking out further shortly. Thanks Erny - Would be grateful for a PM if you find out anything new. TIA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Thanks Erny - Would be grateful for a PM if you find out anything new. Will do. Oh .... just worked out what the "TIA" means at the bottom of your last couple of posts. "Thanks in Advance". I initially was thinking "Transient Ischemic Attack". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 (edited) A "Positive trainer" ... usually will not use a check chain, prong, e collar unless certain circumstances call for it... My understanding of those people who refer to themselves as "positive trainers" won't use any of the above equipment, under any circumstances regardless. Im with Erny - this is also my understanding. I have been talking a while ago to a friend that is a member of a pure positve list and she showed me a clip of someone doing some work and the dog not really doing what it was supposed to do, the dog simply walked off during the excercise. I said - I dont understand why doesnt this person have the dog on the lead so it cant walk off. Friend explained that the concept is for the dog to work out itself that it needs to be/work with the handler. Wouldnt this slow the training process down? This is very interesting and educational thread!!! Thinking here of our pups/dogs being 'trained to work sheep'... until about 6/7 months, pups are free range..confined to a pen at night. they are handled from birth..not terribly gently.. and we don't use soft 'baby' voices to them much. They are encouraged from a few weeks old to only expect a pat when all feet are on the ground, to willingly give up food or toys, to not jump up, and to respond to their names. All this is done informally, as part of their everyday doings...each time they 'sit'..they hear the word SIT, and get "good spot/fido" and a pat . They also get grrrowled at if they nip, or steal food, or are too rough. a lot of times it soaks in, and by the time a youngster is a few months old, they are coming to us, sitting at our sides,learning to DROP ( done purely with a food bribe/reward at first ) and responding very well to their names . THEN... comes the time when they are on the chain whilst not actively doing anything. They have their kongs and bones and beds...and now learn that being OFF the chain means learning and working, going in the car, and getting to be with the other dogs. we never have any trouble getting dogs back to the chain...as that is then their 'patch'...where the warm bed is, the food, and the chance for a quiet cuddle. So..the pups are also taken around the sheep, and on the motor bike.... and the only time they are on a 'lead' is when an over -enthusiastic youngster is attached to a very long rope in the sheep yards...and shown that they must stay within its boundaries...not circle the sheep and lose all sense of hearing!!!!! So..most of our training is done with no lead..., it can be done out here because of the areas we have to 'play in'. I have done the hard yards, too, years ago...with Guide Dog work...hours and hours and months of on-lead work...letting dogs off-lead was always an anxious time Lots of check-chain corrections...interesting differences.. Chalk & Cheese.... so many different ways to get our dogs to do as we wish...to fit in with our way of life.... Poor dogs Edited June 15, 2007 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 We were informed that Bart would not make it back to Australia this year but would hopefully be coming out again (and maybe to Sydney and Melbourne, not just QLD) some time next year. It was the best seminar i have been to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 Will do. Oh .... just worked out what the "TIA" means at the bottom of your last couple of posts. "Thanks in Advance". I initially was thinking "Transient Ischemic Attack". ;) TMBABCAT Too Many Bloody Acronyms, Becomes Confusing At Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Working_Setters Posted June 15, 2007 Share Posted June 15, 2007 We were informed that Bart would not make it back to Australia this year but would hopefully be coming out again (and maybe to Sydney and Melbourne, not just QLD) some time next year. It was the best seminar i have been to. Thanks Cosmolo - I'll keep an eye out for those return seminars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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