Barf

[hopenfox]

Sorry, long post!

I feed all my dogs on BARF.

Hope, my Koolie, has always inhaled her food, and that includes her edible bones. She always broke off and swallowed big pieces and with my fingers always crossed, she's never had a problem...up until now.

Last Saturday afternoon, after scoffing a lamb neck bone, she became very quiet and was in obvious pain, very restless and walking with her tummy tucked up and whining with each short, sharp breath...I just knew she had a bone stuck somewhere. Off to the Vet, where, after feeling her stomach, they ignored what I thought, and gave her several injections for the pain and also antibiotics since she had a fever. They thought she probably just had a stomach ache. They sent us home with antibiotic and pain relief tablets and a suggestion to feed bland food only for a while and to keep her quite.

The next day, she was vomiting up every small meal instantly, and appeared to be still in horrible pain. Took her back to the Vet, where she still had a temperature. They kept her there while they re-hydrated her on a drip, and took some blood to send away for tests...they thought it might be Pancreatitus.

I got a phone call hours later to say the blood was fine and just showed dehydration and a slightly elevated white blood cell count. Hope was really bright and comfortable, so they were going to do the X-Rays later.

I got a phone call at about 8:30 to say I'd better come quick, Hope's X-Rays showed she had a large bone wedged in her esophagus between her heart and stomach, and she'd also fainted into unconsciousness as she was leaving the X-Ray room, so the bone was probably pressing on her heart.

My sister drove me to the Vet (I was too upset to drive) straight away, where my Vet said Hope needed emergency surgery to remove the bone, and she needed to be taken to a specialist...So (probably feeling guilty about not doing the X-Rays earlier or believing my sure knowledge it was a bone stuck when I was there on my first visit) my Vet offered to drive Hope and I there (nearly 2 hours away) right then.

So after signing papers, paying a very large deposit, and saying goodbye, we left Hope there and headed back. When I got home I rang to see how the endoscopy went, but as I thought, they were unable to pull or push the bone out, and open heart type surgery to remove the bone would begin first thing in the morning. They'd ring and let me know how it went.

So anyway, it apparently went well, they got the bone out, removed a damaged part of her esophagus and sewed her back together with a chest drain and a feeding tube connected to her stomach.

Yesterday she was fed her first bit of food through the tube (slurry) and kept it down, so they're hopeful she can start lapping the slurry tomorrow. Her chest drain will probably be removed tomorrow too, and if all goes well I can go pick her up on Sunday.

Anyway, since Hope is allergic to processed food, and has alway thrived on the BARF diet, but can obviously not be fed bones for a very long time or ever again, does anyone have ideas on how I can still feed her on a natural raw diet without bones? There must be dogs out there with the same problem or with no teeth that are still fed raw food? I've thought of the minced chicken frames Lenards sell...and maybe just add calcium powder/bone meal to beef, lamb and kangaroo mince? How do I keep her teeth clean without bones or biscuits?

Due to the inevitable scarring that will occur around the damaged area of her esophagus, she won't be allowed to swallow anything chunky that could get caught there again...

Also, has anyone had a similar experience with their dog? Does it affect their agility at all? Will I need to give up or slow down her fetching games and agility trials?

Thanks in anticipation for your thoughts or suggestions...

[poodlefan]

Sorry to hear of this Hopenfox.

I'd be going the minced frames option. It's what I'll do if any of mine ever end up toothless old crumblies.

[hopenfox]

Thanks poodlefan,

I wonder if in Summer I could feed her frozen lumps of mince to give her something hard to chew on?

[Falling_dawn]

sorry have no tips other then chew toys for teeth and brushing them with dog tooth paste

but am interested in what other say I’m sorry for hope a friend of mine lost her cavalier puppy when it swallowed a large chunk of chicken neck so have not dared to give mine any bones

[Jean26]

My goodness! How stressful for you and your poor girl...

I cant say i have any tips, sorry...

Maybe as Falling_dawn suggested, like chew toys and brushing her teeth.

[Hazz]

So sorry to hear about Hope

I agree with PF, minced chicken frames.

[pebbles]

My old girl is like that - swallows anything as long as it will fit in her mouth. I gave up trying the bone way long ago and being a littlie cleaning her teeth wasn't on. I had to settle for a teeth cleaning at the Vets every couple of years. She is 13.5yrs now and her teeth are still great.

[ShellyBeggs]

Sounds like something my lab would do.......he thinks anything and everything he can just swallow.

For bones I make sure it is far too big to go down whole!!!

I always buy him the biggest whole marrow bone I can get and always uncut so he can't break it in half.

I am sure like open heart surgery it will take awhile for her to work up her usual speed and agility but should be fine as long as you keep things nice and slow to begin with and build up very gradually!

Let us know how she goes.....

[~Anne~]

Poor Hope. Gald to hear she is on the mend though. What a frightening thing for you to go through.

I feed raw as opposed to barf. I don't feed bones because my Pugs inhale their food and after umpteen times of rescuing bones caught in their throats I gave up.

I now feed only mince, veges, fruit, sardines, yoghurt, eggs, pet millk and kibble (not all together) and I use nylabones (I think that is what they are called) as their teeth cleaner.

They love chewing on those for some reason... I don't know what why as all they are is hard plastic thing in the shape of a bone. Each one usually last for around 6 months before I throw them as the look manky.

[badboyz]

I was also going to suggest whole marrowbones for her teeth.

[KitKat]

Perhaps minced frames, crushed chook necks and crushed turkey necks?

At least with the turkey necks even if you bash them up a bit they should still be chewable but with less chance of getting stuck?

[niki schaef]

i agree with the minced chicken frames, then hope is still getting necessary bone nutrients etc. also with the softer chicken necks, wings turkey necks etc you may be able to smash them up a bit?

as for cleaning teeth you could get those MASSIVE bones (marrow bones?) from the butcher. then her teeth will still get a good workout but no horrible blockages!!

you poor thing how horrible, but i'm glad hope is better

[Chocolate]

The only info I can add is that Dr Billinghurst BARF patties actually have ground bone in them. However, that doesn't help with the tooth cleaning I know. What about Greenies or pig ears would they also be swalled whole or do you think your dog would chew on them?

[PAX]

I had a Bull mastiff years ago that had a bone stuck in her throat, she sounds like Hope, if she could swallow it without chewing she would. I raced her to the vets (she was blue by the time I got there) he believed me after some convincing and knocked her out and got the bone with a pair of long pliers.

It is a bit of a runing joke at vet practices when people say that their dog has a bone stuck as usually it's kennel cough.

I'm glad Hope will be OK.

[westielover]

Sorry to hear about Hope! I'm glad she's on the mend.

One of my westies had an intestinal blockage when he was about 7 months old - it was a combination of a bone/piece of soft toy and piece of leather from a shoe - they got intertwined and blocked his intestinal tract. Vet didn't beleive me either ...... wasn't until the second say after they did x-rays that they discovered he did indeed have a blockage. Must be standard routine for vets to do what your vet & mine did. Needless to say I switched vets!!

Going forward you will need to be careful with Hope's diet. Feeding raw meat (with its high phosphorus content) without bones (or an appropriate calcium supplement, or egg shells) can be a nutritional disaster for dogs. I would suggest feeding the BARF patties (http://www.barfcentralvic.com.au/products.htm) and also sourcing some minced chicken carcasses/necks/wings/lamb riblets/lamb shanks/turkey necks etc. I have purchased chicken mince with minced bones thru it from pet supply stores - so hopefully you can source such a place in your local area which could mince the bones & meat for you. Powdered bonemeal isn't the best thing to give your dog because to make bone meal, bones have to be cooked at a high temperature so that they can be broken down into a powder form - so pretty much all the nutritional content is gone. Start adding broken eggs shells to Hope's diet too. Whatever you do - make sure she's getting bones - but in a minced form. Perhaps a local butcher might be able to mince bones for you?

As for cleaning Hope's teeth - get a hold of some of those giant marrow bones - she can gnaw on them with her back teeth to keep them clean.

Worse case you might have to get the Science Diet Oral Care dry food (click here for more info. They are like giant pieces of kibble - although if she swallows them whole - then this wouldn't be a good solution even as a worse case scenario!

Hope some of this info helps.

All the best to Hope.

[arby]

Hey, when Humphrey was a pup he went really well with the raw minced chicken roll...Chicken, bones and all put through a mincer.

As for chewing and teeth cleaning I'd get those dental kongs they're pretty good.

[hopenfox]

Thanks for your concern everyone!

Hope is home now (picked her up on Sunday) and I'm so glad to have her back!

Her care sheet tells me she needs to be fed AD (prescription) can food, blended finely with water, for two weeks, then I can start introducing my own soft food, which I think I'll start with finely blended minced chicken frames. If she keeps that down well, she can have her G-tube (stomach tube) removed. 3 months after her surgery, she can be started on dry food, and apparently I can never again feed her bones of any kind, ever! Not even the large marrow bones, just in case she happens to chip off a piece...so that's quite disappointing. But of course I wouldn't want to risk having to put her through another operation like that, so I'll just have to make do with teeth cleaning and the occasional dentabone.

I'll definitely be looking for a butcher that will be happy to mince some of the other kinds of bones too. I would still like her to enjoy a variety of different types of meat/bones.

westielover - thanks for those suggestions and the info on the bone meal... :D

Here are a few photos of Hope taken when she got home on Sunday.

[PAX]

Poor Hope, I'm glad she is on the mend. :D

[helen]

How awful, hope she gets well very soon

[Wyhldher]

Wot a shocker! Spot the Dog suffered intersusseption (or however you spell THAT expensive word!) some years ago after a butchered spaying, and eating a 5cm piece of soft electrical tape that would have ordinarily passed through; but instead resulted in emergency surgery 3 days after the butcher job, whereupon 2 metres of intestine, and a third of her bowel were removed. Interestingly, the butcher vet inferred I was just being neurotic when I rang to say she was very lethargic and seemingly not recovering well!

Anyway, for the last 8 years she hasn't been able to digest bone, and I find that organic apple cider vinegar in her water seems to aid her digestion, and I'm sure it keeps her teeth clean and her gums healthy. (Or maybe that's just me figuring it can't really be anything else!) She does have the occasional dinosaur bone (and I must admit I've never seen her able to gnaw any of it off, as suggested by your vet - but hey, who can argue with an expert, eh?) I'm surprised that the vet suggests dry food at a later date - I'd probably keep well clear of that, but that's just me; we all know what's best for our babies!

Chicken carcasses she can handle, but surprisingly, not chicken necks - so I do think it's a case of what individual dogs can, and can't do. I found that Manuka honey (30+) was great internally and externally for soothing the incision - twice in the same spot! - and ready for the third time when she ate a kebab stick in the park....

So sorry to hear an unlucky story, dismayed to hear another misguided vet response, and VERY glad to hear that all is on the mend. I love the way that vet's mistakes always seem to cost US - lol!

Edited August 23, 2007 by Wyhldher