How Much Training Does A Dog Need To Start Agility

[poodlefan]

Dogdude, to me the most effective place to learn focus and control with a dog offlead is a training school that emphasises precisely that. In my experience, not many do. Some go as far as to only allow training over agility equipment onlead, which IMHO is a completely ineffective training technique.

My first response made it quite clear that offlead reliability was a PREREQUISITE for agility training. At my club we test for it before allowing a dog to enter agility classes.

In my experience the people who have dogs that are reliable offlead are those that place emphasis on training for it on a day to day basis, and not just rolling up to weekly classes. It's not uncommon for dogs to go through a "zoomie" period in agility where they loose focus and it's the handlers that work hard on reliability that get past it.

I am not 'bagging" formal obedience. What I am saying is that training for it is not necessarily the best way to ensure a reliable offlead recall.

I don't know many people who've not cut it in formal obedience who've ended up in agility. If you can't train a dog to do obedience, you've probably got bugger all chance to train it to obey your cues 20 feet away, at high speed and moving away from you don't you think?

I can tell you that for 6 of the past 8 years, the highest award for dog sports achievement at my dog club has gone to dogs who have both formal obedience (UD) AND agility titles. No bail outs from obedience there. Perhaps things are different where you are.

Edited June 6, 2007 by poodlefan

[Kavik]

There is a lot of focus work you can do without doing formal obedience classes. Actually, I don't know of any classes (including the one I go to) that specifically teach focus. Classes mainly deal with obedience exercises such as heel, sit, stand, drop, formal recall (sit, stay, come), stay until you get to higher levels. Focus is of course useful for heeling, but is not usually taught as a separate exercise (though it should be).

[Vickie]

I don't know many people who've not cut it in formal obedience who've ended up in agility. If you can't train a dog to do obedience, you've probably got bugger all chance to train it to obey your cues 20 feet away, at high speed and moving away from you don't you think?

Well said.

[dogdude]

I can tell you that for 6 of the past 8 years, the highest award for dog sports achievement at my dog club has gone to dogs who have both formal obedience (UD) AND agility titles. No bail outs from obedience there. Perhaps things are different where you are.

So now we agree that while formal obedience is not neccessary, if you want a competitive dog in agility it should be?

Edited June 6, 2007 by dogdude

[he'smyhero]

I personally think that agility training, or at least the relationship/foundation training we do at my club is more benefical to improving off lead reliability then what we were doing at my old obedience club.

At agility there are dogs every where hyped up, barking, owners yelling etc the dogs are distracted and in a high energy situation. Perfecting a recall in a setting like this is more effective then in a obedience situation where they are sitting there waiting to be released or recalled. With Hero I can now recall him from any situation regardless of what he may be doing (99% of the time anyway).

The dogs are taught to be more focused on they're handler so aren't as supseptable to distractions as in obedience. One instructor actually noted that too much formal obedience training can hinder dogs because it trains the drive/the play out of dogs which is necessary for agility.

[poodlefan]

Focus, control, responsiveness and athleticism are prerequisites for the dog Dogdude. Whether your dog knows what heeling or a straight front and finish is don't matter..

A good dog trainer is generally a good dog trainer regardless of what pursuit they are training for I reckon although you do need to have bloody good timing to handle well in agility - there's basically no margin for error at the higher levels.

[skip]

Thanks for that thread information Kavik and Sandrasm!

I have two small dogs, weight 4 and 10 kgs, so they are maybe toy/mini class. Are there any things you need to watch out for when training little dogs? My instructor hasn't got into contacts for my dogs? He said mine would be so unlikely to jump off above the end that it might not be necessary. I'll ask again next training as he also said that it was not compulsory to touch the end colour now? Is this a new rule?

I asked about jump height in training and was told most people jump their dogs the height that the dog must jump in competition. So they develope muscle memory of the jump required. This was as I was wondering about how often/high I was jumping the smallest. And thought it might be better to jump her height in a run but if just doing figure eights etc over a jump for training purpose it could be lower. Not that she struggles at all, she jumps up and down like a yo-yo. I just don't want to lose that energy.

Thanks.

[Sally]

Thanks for all of the responses and discussion re. how much obedience training a dog needs to do agility. I called the agility club I hope to join, and they said you need the basic level obedience certificate. We will have that in about 4 weeks, but the owner of the obedience school says you're not to take your dog off the lead until you've reached level 3 or 4 of obedience (I can't remember which one, but it was at least level 3). I guess I'll just have to see how I go at agility. I hope my small dog doesn't get eaten by one of the bigger ones :rolleyes:

[rastus_froggy]

Dont worry your small dog wont get eaten!! Most dogs that do agility are very focused on the task at hand, and most love other dogs!

[smisch]

IMO (coming from a complete novice) Fromal obedience training isn't a must if you wanna do agility, I did obed. with one dog (snoopy) and I didn't with jock, and I have noticed snoopy wants to stay close to me all the time when we are doing agility which can make it difficult to send him away where as Jock wants to run ahead. Plus (correct me if I'm wrong) Some of the stuff you learn in obed. contridics what you do in agility.

* In obed. we were always told reward your dog at the end of the excersise when they sit, In agility we're told reward the dog as soon as they have done whats been asked so as soon as they go over the jump instead of waiting for them to come and sit infront of you

*In agility you work your dog on both sides, (I personally) found/am finding it hard to break this habit cos of obed.

Really it is up to you if you feel your dog will benifit from obed. do it cos at the end of the day your the one who has to live with your dog. Good luck!

everyone else please correct me if I'm worng buts thats what I have seemed to have picked up along my little while in agility!

[Rusky]

at our club all dogs of the right age are invited to beginners agility,most join for obedience and are older 'problem' dogs when invited. The youngsters need to reach maturity, formal obedience is not a requirement.