Rhi*Jak*Ed Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Hi everyone, Last Sunday I had to go interstate for work and have only just gotten back tonight. Rather than putting Jak in a kennel, I had arranged for a friend of mine to stay at my house to look after her. Well, come Monday afternoon my friend had had enough and apparently Jak was so aggressive with her, biting and snarling constantly, that my friend was in tears when she called me. It stressed me out big time because I was thousands of kilometres away from home and felt so helpless. Jak had obviously had major issues with someone else coming in to the house and was dominating my friend in every way imaginable. That and quite possibly some pretty serious separation anxiety going on there... So my mum arranged for her to go to a kennel for the remainder of the time. Of course then she was fine. At one stage I believe that my friend even went and bought a muzzle because the biting and aggressive snarling had gotten so bad :-( Well I've finally arrived home (what a week!) and of course she was big time excited to see me, which was just wonderful! I even cried because I felt so bad about everything that had happened. I moved my suitcase into my room and she started biting on it and as I moved her away from it she snarled at me! ARGH!!!! First time ever... And I can't say that I'm happy about it either. If this is what she was doing with my friend then any wonder she wasn't coping. I'm a bit at a loss now though as to where to go from here... Was she just displaying some big time dominant behaviour with my friend and this will now settle down once I'm home, or are there bigger problems there that need addressing? Thanks guys, Rhi & Jak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Rhi,it sounds like your Dog ran rings around your Friend.Obvisouly the Dog took control and saw itself having top Dog status over your Friend. Pack structure can be fluid.So your away the Dog dominates your Friend and takes up top Spot.You come back and the Dog still wants to retain Top Spot so starts on the dominant behaviour with you. You need to reassert your Leadership in this case clearly and consistently so there is no doubt in the Dog"s mind that you are number one. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryamartimmy Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I wonder if it's something your puppy learned from the other dogs at the kennels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toohey Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I'm a bit at a loss now though as to where to go from here... Was she just displaying some big time dominant behaviour with my friend and this will now settle down once I'm home, or are there bigger problems there that need addressing?Thanks guys, Rhi & Jak I'd be talking a bit more to your freind to try and find out why your pup was behaving like that, especially if it is not normal behaviour for Jak. Does your freind like and understand dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryamartimmy Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 Oh yeah.... hehe. Don't mind me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 yep i would be making sure pup knows your authority. its also good practice with young pups to give them their dinner bowl etc and then remove it again once they start eating - this should not cause any problems - its important you can remove high reward items from your pup without any aggression. as soon as pup snarls/bites SHOUT at it a loud NO and if necessary hands on. (not too heavy handed... with littlies) also make sure that the friend comes back and you get them to do the same thing - you want pup to be below any human not just u....get lots of people to visit and if the behaviour occurs tell them what to do.... it may also help your friend over her traumatic pet sitting if she knows what to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganman Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Hey was this dog normal before you went away, I often go away for work and when the dogs cant go to my mums (she goes away to sometimes) Ive got my mates to stay here with the dogs and nothinh like what you describe has ever happened.Unless your friend abused the dog I would say that you mustve had problems with the dog to start with I cant see a normal dog changing like that so quickly. Not trying to cause trouble it just sounds wierd to me. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 My guess is that this behaviour has been developing for some time Paganman. To acuse someone of dog abuse is a little OTT. Rhi get a professional behaviouralist out ASAP to have a look at what's going on and to give you some professional, practical advice on what to do. No point in speculating on what caused the behaviour... better to focus on improving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganman Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Sorry I shouldnt of said abuse I meant she maybe upset the dog in some way, yeah abuse was the wrong word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShellyBeggs Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Oh you poor thing, what a terrbile week you have had! I agree with what some of the others have said, you need to reestablish your leadership as topdog and once that is done get your friend to come and visit, make it very clear to Jak that any unwanted behaviour towards your friend is not permitted. And even have your friend establish herself as above Jak, get your friend to give commands 'sit' etc..... and reward the exact same as you. Start with you in the room, and then when Jak is responding to your friend leave the room for a minutes and have her continue. Jak needs to learn that all humans are leaders!!!! and also that they are capable of dishing out the much prized rewards also! Even get other people to do the same, family, visitors etc..... If kids want to pat my dogs at the park I ask the kid to tell them to sit first rather than I tell the dogs to sit..... Although do keep in mind how stressful it was for Jak! I hope things are getting better now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Ok.. let me break it down for you folks. OP's dog has behaved aggressively towards her friend.. and now towards her. Absolutely no one can say for sure WHY this behaviour is occuring. I don't think this is a behaviour that can be dismissed as "dominance" without anyone actually having witnessed the behaviour. An attempt to reestablish leadership in the wrong circumstances will result in the OP or another person being bitten and the dog learning that biting stops people doing things it doesn't like. Thats one lesson you NEVER want a dog to learn. Get professional help. The sooner you do, the less the behaviour may escalate. Edited June 1, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfish Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 its also good practice with young pups to give them their dinner bowl etc and then remove it again once they start eating - this should not cause any problems - its important you can remove high reward items from your pup without any aggression.as soon as pup snarls/bites SHOUT at it a loud NO and if necessary hands on. (not too heavy handed... with littlies) Hi, what do you mean by hands on in this circumstance? Is this a smack? Dogfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 I second Poodlefan's comments- you can't diagnose and prescribe safely over the internet with agression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Akitaowner: its also good practice with young pups to give them their dinner bowl etc and then remove it again once they start eating - this should not cause any problems - its important you can remove high reward items from your pup without any aggression.as soon as pup snarls/bites SHOUT at it a loud NO and if necessary hands on. (not too heavy handed... with littlies) Do that to a pup or dog with serious resource guarding issues and I'll virtually guarantee you'll get bitten AND make the problem worse. We were given a bigger brain for a reason. Confrontation with an animal wilth any kind of aggression issue will more often than not end in grief.... for you and the dog. Edited June 1, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) . Edited June 8, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirbydog Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 Hi everyone,Last Sunday I had to go interstate for work and have only just gotten back tonight. Rather than putting Jak in a kennel, I had arranged for a friend of mine to stay at my house to look after her. Well, come Monday afternoon my friend had had enough and apparently Jak was so aggressive with her, biting and snarling constantly, that my friend was in tears when she called me. It stressed me out big time because I was thousands of kilometres away from home and felt so helpless. Jak had obviously had major issues with someone else coming in to the house and was dominating my friend in every way imaginable. That and quite possibly some pretty serious separation anxiety going on there... So my mum arranged for her to go to a kennel for the remainder of the time. Of course then she was fine. At one stage I believe that my friend even went and bought a muzzle because the biting and aggressive snarling had gotten so bad :-( Well I've finally arrived home (what a week!) and of course she was big time excited to see me, which was just wonderful! I even cried because I felt so bad about everything that had happened. I moved my suitcase into my room and she started biting on it and as I moved her away from it she snarled at me! ARGH!!!! First time ever... And I can't say that I'm happy about it either. If this is what she was doing with my friend then any wonder she wasn't coping. I'm a bit at a loss now though as to where to go from here... Was she just displaying some big time dominant behaviour with my friend and this will now settle down once I'm home, or are there bigger problems there that need addressing? Thanks guys, Rhi & Jak Hey! Do not freak out I will be allright. I just had a kids birthday and some girls chased Kirby around to the point where he got so distressed that he started nipping at the kids. We removed him from the situation and told the kids to leave the dog alone and we had no more issues for the rest of the day. Dogs get excited and distressed. It seems a bit odd to me that she displays behaviour like that at such a young age. Talk to your vet or a dog trainer. I was lucky my vet was a guest at the party! ;o)) Do you socialise your dog. Do you take her out with you and subject her to a lot of different situations? Maybe she was afraid. Kirby nips at everything that is new and scary to him. You should have seen him with his first encounter with another dog. He nipped at the dog constantly. Lucky I was a very socialised Labrador and did not loose his cool at all. So do not distress just subject her to a lot of different situations in a save environment. Maybe she was not used to being alone with strangers and that freaked her out? Here is the link to my favourite website http://www.perfectpaws.com/. This lady is a genius in my eyes. I strongly recommend her books as well and puppy classes for socialisation and someone at hand to ask all questions that you may have. Good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 its also good practice with young pups to give them their dinner bowl etc and then remove it again once they start eating - this should not cause any problems - its important you can remove high reward items from your pup without any aggression. as soon as pup snarls/bites SHOUT at it a loud NO and if necessary hands on. (not too heavy handed... with littlies) Hi, what do you mean by hands on in this circumstance? Is this a smack? Dogfish in this circumstance (im sure the owner knows her dog and whether it is actually likely to bite her!) i will push the dog away/down from me for undesirable aggressive behaviour Akitaowner: its also good practice with young pups to give them their dinner bowl etc and then remove it again once they start eating - this should not cause any problems - its important you can remove high reward items from your pup without any aggression.as soon as pup snarls/bites SHOUT at it a loud NO and if necessary hands on. (not too heavy handed... with littlies) Do that to a pup or dog with serious resource guarding issues and I'll virtually guarantee you'll get bitten AND make the problem worse. We were given a bigger brain for a reason. Confrontation with an animal wilth any kind of aggression issue will more often than not end in grief.... for you and the dog. Thank you Poodlefan. I couldn't believe that anyone would give advice of that nature over the internet without seeing the dog in action or having any idea what caused this behaviour. This dog needs to be seen by a qualified behaviourist. Akitaowner I strongly disagree that it's good practice to take the food away from the dog when they start eating. That's a pretty sure way to make many dogs resource guard their food. Our dogs need to trust us and we can hardly expect that to happen if we take their meal away from them. There are far better ways to train a dog to release what they have in their mouths. it is well known that if your dog will not let you take their bowl away they can become guarded/protective of their dinner, from you or anyone/thing else. i believe this is a young pup (<12months) which is why it was suggested. If the dog trusts you to be its leader it should have no issue AT ALL of you removing its food. What happens if dog picks something up you dont want it to eat (eg dangerous) how are you supposed to remove it - without having trained the dog you may take things from it that it might want to keep!! RE the shouting. Dogs have excellent hearing and there is no need to shout. What exactly do you mean by 'hands on'? I trust you are not advising anyone to hit their dogs. no its nore the tone of your voice that is the issue and whether they believe you mean what you say. no i never advised to 'hit' a dog .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Akitaowner: it is well known that if your dog will not let you take their bowl away they can become guarded/protective of their dinner, from you or anyone/thing else. i believe this is a young pup (<12months) which is why it was suggested. If the dog trusts you to be its leader it should have no issue AT ALL of you removing its food. What happens if dog picks something up you dont want it to eat (eg dangerous) how are you supposed to remove it - without having trained the dog you may take things from it that it might want to keep!! Resource guarding is by and large an inherited behaviour that can be displayed as early as 3 weeks of age. It is not created by lack of training. Constant interference with food bowls or other valuable resources will not guarantee that a dog won't guard but may create increased anxiety and aggression in dogs with a tendency to guard. Yelling and "getting physical" with a dog displaying clear warning signs that it doesn't like your behaviour may extinguish the warning signs or result in an attack. That you would discipline a dog for a behaviour that YOU are creating by interfering with it's food is hardly a positive approach to the issue. I don't believe in setting dogs up to fail. The view of some experts is that resource guarding is not a behaviour that can be extinguised. It can merely be managed. It can certainly be worsened by applying the wrong "management" approach. You have concluded that this dog is displaying resource guarding behaviour. However, no one who hasn't seen the dog knows what's going on for sure. ETA: I've trained a "leave it" and a "give" cue for my dogs. If I wanted something from a resource guarder I'd be offering them something they want in exchange. I put my dogs food down, watch them eat it and remove the bowls when they're done. No dog gets to touch another's bowl or food. Eating is done peacefully and quickly in my house. Edited June 1, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted June 1, 2007 Share Posted June 1, 2007 (edited) Like the others I don't believe that it's necessary to remove a dog's food once it has started eating. I assume that you are a follower of what I call the 'wolf pack' training methods. Ok if you feel the need to pretend to eat from your dog's bowl before you give it to him or nibble a biscuit before feeding your dog that's fine, but no alpha wolf will eat its fill, let the other wolves start eating and then go back and chase the rest of the pack away from the kill just to show it's the boss. I believe that a dog should be able to eat its meal in peace without being hassled by other dogs or humans, taking bowls and food away when the dog is eating doesn't make sense to me and I think in some circumstances may be counter-productive. Edited June 1, 2007 by Miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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