Passive Dominant

[JonathonDB]

I have spoken to a couple of people today in regard to my dogs nervousness.

One person I spoke to, a former military dog trainer, described my dog as passive dominant.

Can somebody please explain exactly what this means.

She also mentioned that he had Grudge and Load behaviour.

Neither of these terms are familiar to me??

Jonathon

[haven]

What good is getting help and advice from a trainer if they just talk in jargon and confuse you? Why didn't you ask her to explain what she meant if you didn't understand?

[Erny]

I agree with Haven. Ask them what they meant. I presume these people saw your dog?

[bridgie_cat]

removed. sounds like a plan erny

Edited May 29, 2007 by bridgie_cat

[Erny]

Bridgie Cat ..... we can all "guess" at what these people meant, but if we endeavour to interpret their meaning, it could be quite different to what was intended. Hence, I don't think it is a good idea to try. It could put the wrong idea into JonathonDB's mind.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Erny

[ShellyBeggs]

I hate jargon........I work for the government so I live in a world of jargon and acronymns.

anyways I have just done a communication course through work and I know it is about people but it suprised me to learn how many people are actually passive aggressive. And I can guess from this what passive dominant in a dog 'could' mean...........

But I agree with Erny that its impossible to guess the true meaning of what the person was intending with the statement.

Guessing could just be dangerous!

good luck JonathonDB!

[JonathonDB]

What good is getting help and advice from a trainer if they just talk in jargon and confuse you? Why didn't you ask her to explain what she meant if you didn't understand?

I did ask, but she didn't stop talking, so one statement ran into the next and I started to ge all confused :-(

Fromn what I remember, she said that the dog is controlling me, by being nervy, he is making me make him do things. She said that even just having me put tension on his lead to kae him stand for examination, he is winning.

I just doesn't make sense to me, and why i was asking.

This was a telephone conversation. This person did not see my dog, I only told her what I have already put on the forum that you guys have read.

She was also going on about how the only dogs in Australia worth breeding from come from Europe, where they temperament test them, and that the dogs here are all starting to become nervous and shy because we are breeding for the show ring and not for the working dog.

[MonElite]

She was also going on about how the only dogs in Australia worth breeding from come from Europe, where they temperament test them, and that the dogs here are all starting to become nervous and shy because we are breeding for the show ring and not for the working dog.

One of the most nervous dogs I had recently seen was a woking DDR lines GSD.

[Jeff Jones]

Interesting that she was able to diagnose your dog over the phone.

Have you contacted any other trainers? where abouts in NSW are you?

[sas]

To me passive dominance is not a nervious dog, it's a dog that doesn't need to physically repremand another dog, its' body language alone is enough to assert itself.

Wat do other people classify passive dominance as?

[Lablover]

I did ask, but she didn't stop talking, so one statement ran into the next and I started to ge all confused :-(

:D In my experience the best trainers, including those from overseas, are the ones who ask quiet indepth questions. These trainers normally train quietly as well!!! No one can diagnose over the telephone. Most owners wear rose coloured glasses regarding their dogs.

[Tonymc]

Jonathon,let me give you a scenario in the Human World that will answer your query about Passive Dominance.

A Fellow I knew took up with this Girl.They both had Horses so I used to come across them every now and then.I cannot help but watch and be aware of Behaviour whether it be Dogs,Horses or Humans.I took note of this Girl"s behaviour and how the Fellow was racing around doing everything for her,not to a normal level but way over the Top.The Fellow did not realise the Game that this Girl was playing.He felt important and needed and he mistakenly thought he had the upper Hand as he thought she had to rely on him for everything.This Girl was nowhere as helpless as she portrayed and it was a big act.The Fellow thought he was in control, but the Truth was the Girl was.She was being Passively Dominant!!!!

Quote from Johnathon

She was also going on about how the only dogs in Australia worth breeding from come from Europe, where they temperament test them, and that the dogs here are all starting to become nervous and shy because we are breeding for the show ring and not for the working dog.

I can understand where she is coming from with the above statement,especially if she is ex military. Tony

[Erny]

Tonymc is pretty much on the mark where it relates to my definition of what "Passive Dominance" would mean. But still don't know if this was the intended meaning given by the person who spoke to you. Might have been right ...... but remember - it's an "over the phone" comment. If I were you I wouldn't take this as a "diagnosis" for your dog's behaviour.

Having said that - "Leadership" .... yours, that is, IS required by your dog. I think I might have mentioned this in a previous post about him? Certainly won't do any harm.

But if I were you, I would consider it very worthwhile to consult with someone who knows ..... and who will see your dog, yourself, assess your relationship and SHOW you what to do and when as well as explain how the dog interprets all of this.

Still have no idea of "Grudge and Budge" or whatever it was.

[haven]

The trouble is, what the trainer intended to describe when they coined the phrases may be something completely different to what we would interpret it as.

[JonathonDB]

Jonathon,let me give you a scenario in the Human World that will answer your query about Passive Dominance.

A Fellow I knew took up with this Girl.They both had Horses so I used to come across them every now and then.I cannot help but watch and be aware of Behaviour whether it be Dogs,Horses or Humans.I took note of this Girl"s behaviour and how the Fellow was racing around doing everything for her,not to a normal level but way over the Top.The Fellow did not realise the Game that this Girl was playing.He felt important and needed and he mistakenly thought he had the upper Hand as he thought she had to rely on him for everything.This Girl was nowhere as helpless as she portrayed and it was a big act.The Fellow thought he was in control, but the Truth was the Girl was.She was being Passively Dominant!!!!

Quote from Johnathon

She was also going on about how the only dogs in Australia worth breeding from come from Europe, where they temperament test them, and that the dogs here are all starting to become nervous and shy because we are breeding for the show ring and not for the working dog.

I can understand where she is coming from with the above statement,especially if she is ex military. Tony

Well, I know one thing, I won't be sending this boy anywhere for some miracle cure that will only take 2 weeks!!

So, am now up for some confidence building ideas.

I have been told that tug-of-war with him, and allowing him to win is one way to do this. Has anyone else got any suggestions to build confidence (apart from obedience training which he will be going to weekely).

Thank you everyone for your input by the way.

Jonathon.

[conchy]

Does he seem to display dominant behaviour at home when he is in his comfort zone like attention seeking when it suits him, prolonged eye contact or such?

ETA Does he have fear of people he isnt famliar with mainly or just a fear of unfamiliar situations across the board.

Edited May 30, 2007 by conchy

[Erny]

The trouble is, what the trainer intended to describe when they coined the phrases may be something completely different to what we would interpret it as.

Totally agree with Haven. It's been what I've been trying to emphasise too.

[MonElite]

Well, I know one thing, I won't be sending this boy anywhere for some miracle cure that will only take 2 weeks!!

There arent any miracle 2 week things, well done you have realised this.

Have you been taking your dog out mongst people?

[JonathonDB]

Well, I know one thing, I won't be sending this boy anywhere for some miracle cure that will only take 2 weeks!!

:D :D

There arent any miracle 2 week things, well done you have realised this.

Have you been taking your dog out mongst people?

At every opportunity, trouble is, most people in shopping areas don't want to pat someone else's dog. Would be nice for him to interact with some kind people willing to have the patience to sit next to him and let him progress over to them when he is ready.

[JonathonDB]

Does he seem to display dominant behaviour at home when he is in his comfort zone like attention seeking when it suits him, prolonged eye contact or such?

ETA Does he have fear of people he isnt famliar with mainly or just a fear of unfamiliar situations across the board.

Definately, he will even go and bark at the neighbour through the fence when they are n thier backyard. He will happily grab a toy and walk around with it, he will chase a toy and bring it back, BUT, in saying all of that, he is NOT at all an excitable boy, rather laid back in his usual demeamour.