Agility- Would You Retire After A Mistake?

[Cosmolo]

When in training, if we make a mistake, i don't allow the dog to continue running the course as i feel that for my dog, it rewards a behaviour i do not want. Of course then we go back and fix it. This rarely happens now unless i completely mess something up in which case i just fix my handing and do it again.

My question is, does anyone do this in a trial- ie, pull their dog from the ring if they are not working well? Or do you continue to run so the dog finishes on a good note and fix the mistake next time you're training? Have any of you had any issues with a dog becoming ring smart? Do you do anything in the ring mid course if the dog does something you do not want that is not a direct result of poor handling at the time?

[Guest Clover]

Being involved pretty heavily in Flyball if the dog makes a mistake we usually re run them and try to get them running well. If the dog is running off ands interfering with the other dogs and team then yes it will be pulled (that is pretty rare these days though).

When i was trialing in Obedience with Clover i would continue on after a mistake, and will do when we return to the trial ring in a couple of months .

[poodlefan]

I never retire or stop after a mistake. Reason is simple... most if not all of the time the errors are down to me and not the dog. Why should the dog be penalised for my handling or training? The one exception would be for a dog who breaks a start line lead out but I've never had much trouble with that.

The other reason is that I don't have super high drive dogs and I want as much speed and enthusiasm as I can get. A lot of stopping and being removed from equipment can slow a dog right down.

I trial as I train.. no difference. I dont think dogs get ringwise, I think they learn that the handling varies and the handler's nerves vary between training and trialling.

Edited May 25, 2007 by poodlefan

[leopuppy04]

I do exactly the same as what I do in training..... or at least try to.

Most of the time the errors are my body language (or in a trial situation, Nerves) that causes them to make a mistake.

For example - I had a really bad run with Leo in agility on Wed night (after a really good night on Tue!).... the course was set up in such a way that a jump was next to a U shaped tunnel, which was next to another jump and another tunnel to that jump.... if that makes sense . Leo is a 'tunnel suck' and would continue to go to the tunnel and not the jump..... but in all honesty - my body language in part, was telling him to do the tunnel as that is the direction my body is facing!

If he makes a mistake in the course, I will take him back to do it again.... rarely he will make the mistake a 2nd time - if he does - I either finish the run, or continue, only to figure out how/ why he made the mistake...... usually when we go in a second time, once he gets it right he won't make the error again.... but I don't think that is in effect of taking him out of the run... just my thoughts

[wheres my rock]

if the dog isnt prforming well i retire whether in obedience or agility i know some handlers hate it when you do it but you have to do whats best for you and your dog

[Sayreovi]

Cosmolo i was just about to ask the same sort of question

For agility, when trialling and the dog does the obstacle wrong, like popping out of the weavers or not hitting contacts do you get your dog to do it again?

[ness]

Hmm I would put my dog back through the weavers and continue the course. Same with contacts - back on the contact and continue on. Most of the judges here are fairly good in that respect and as long as you aren't wasting to much time your allowed to continue. So no constantly schooling the dog multiple times but if its a case of 2-3 seconds then that seems to be allowed.

[FHRP]

99% of the time in agility if my dog 'makes a mistake' it is my fault, so I either fix it up and continue or just keep going. If I go and put a dog back on a contact (a reflection of my training, rather than the dog being naughty) I may well leave the ring as I have used up my time IMO and started training.

My pet peeve at the Nationals was having to leave the ring after a DQ. Terribly demotivating for both dog and handler.

[ness]

Yep that was my pet peeve about nationals as well FHR - we were just lucky they we didn't have to many courses which we didn't get a fair way through. Some if you made an error right near the end they let you continue anyway.

ETA Some things like wrong jumps if there are two jumps side by side or something I won't bother fixing and will just continue on - mainly things like contacts or weavers. Touch wood though I haven't had to go back and fix to many contacts recently.

Edited May 25, 2007 by ness

[helen]

I agree that it is usually the handlers fault so would not normally, but have done so 3 times.

First time was when Bella was just starting out, she was deliberately running away from me to do the obstacles she wanted and would not come to me

The 2nd time it was pouring rain, we were close to the end and I got lost on the course, I told the judge I was stopping as I got lost, she got me to do a couple so Bella thought she did a great job (which she did until I got lost LOL).

The 3rd time was very recently with Tilly. She was sniffing the ground a lot, a few dogs had done their business in the ring where she was sniffing. I called her away before she followed suit (she does mark and tries to cock her leg), got her to do a tunnel away from the smells and finished on a high.

[Vickie]

I've only ever retired from the ring in a trial twice.

Once was when she completely blew me off on an opening sequence & decided she didn't need me to direct her

The other was when she nipped at me for getting in her way :D .

I agree with FHR. 99% of our errors are either my poor handling or poor training, neither of which I will retire/punish my dog for. I try not to redo any off courses either in training or trialling unless I need to in order to do the rest of the course...but I do remember how & why it happened so I can work on it for when we next see it again.

Any missed weaves are reattempted & thankfully the 2nd go fixes them.

If my run completely falls apart, I will just pick an easy course to the finish line & try not to let her know how much I stuffed up.

Big tugs happen at the end no matter what (well, other than the 2 times I walked her off).

[J...]

I haven't trialled yet (soon! :D ) but I am quite strict on start lines. Darce does a good start line, I'm really happy with it and she hasn't broken one for ages.

If she was to break a startline at training, I'd take her off-course and she'd spend some time cooling her heels on the sidelines. Agility is very rewarding for her so I think she'd figure that one out pretty quick.

I'd like to think I'd refuse the temptation of continuing the run if she did break a startline at a trial.

Edited May 25, 2007 by feralpup

[tollerjosie]

Hmmm.. Difficult to say in a way, at least for me without experience from agility, but my philosophy in obedience and search is to finish what I've started. If something goes wrong in training I complete the excercise and start something different after. If something goes wrong during a trial, I would say to the judge "I want to withdraw from the trial, but I'd like to complete the excercise". Usually, that's not a problem. I do this (and so does several of my friends) because I want the dog to have succeeded the last time he/she does the excercise. I have an example of what I mean: I have friend who's an obedience instructor. She has a two year old GSD, and when they started obedience class two (the Norwegian program is different from the British/American/Australian), there's an excercise where you send you dog out to a cone and when the dog stands there, you are to give the dog a new command. So on this excercise, she gives the command and the dog runs straight for the broad jump. He did this because that was what happened the last time they trained before they started.

Feel free to PM me, or post it here if you have questions about the different programs :D

[SSS]

99.99999% of the time mistakes are my fault... so I always keep going I have to keep Muffin's drive up and taking her out of the ring just when she's all pumped to have a run is not going to help with that - I dont want her thinking she's done something wrong when its my fault

[HTacd]

I tend to agree with everyone else that the majority of mistakes on a course are going to be the handlers, and so I think very rarely is stopping the dog mid course going to be of any benefit to the team. If anything it would be quite demotivating.

For my younger dog however, I will stop his run mid course and remove him from the ring but that is because bad behaviour in between obstacles (jumping up) rather than making a mistake. If fact if he makes a mistake on course, eg takes a wrong jump or tunnel entrance, I will keep running and try to act as if he was correct as a) usually he was only following my body language and b) stopping him and correcting the mistake is more likely to cause his bad behaviour.

On the other hand my female has a tendency to take off for the tunnel when she sees it without listening to me resulting in her taking the wrong entrance or going off course completely. In her case I would usually get her to repeat it properly, but for her retiring from the run would be waaay too demotivating.

[whatevah]

I found with doing Super Dogs with Moses if he got away with missing a weaver, he would do it again the next time.

[Tim Fairchild]

It depends on the situation. If you or the dog are right off, then retire. If it's hot and/or you have several dogs and events to run in, then retire. If you are just going to run around without directing the dog correctly as it doesn't count, then retire. If you are finding the course too negative and it's putting you or the dog off, then retire.

The best training would be to pause (even if just mentally) after the error/fault and compose yourself and start from where you went wrong and play as if you are starting again. And do the rest of the course the best you can do it.

[Lablover]

When in training, if we make a mistake, i don't allow the dog to continue running the course as i feel that for my dog, it rewards a behaviour i do not want. Of course then we go back and fix it. This rarely happens now unless i completely mess something up in which case i just fix my handing and do it again.

Training is training. Generally I look at reasons for the errors, (a) dog not being educated enough, which includes proofing with various distractions including new environments. Breaking down exercises is very important. (b) lack of effort on the dog's part.

My question is, does anyone do this in a trial- ie, pull their dog from the ring if they are not working well? Or do you continue to run so the dog finishes on a good note and fix the mistake next time you're training? Have any of you had any issues with a dog becoming ring smart? Do you do anything in the ring mid course if the dog does something you do not want that is not a direct result of poor handling at the time?

More often than not, from a retrieving trial point of view, retrieving out of order, thus receiving reward, has the capability of becoming trial smart very quickly.

It is very rare in the higher stakes not to have a mistake/slipped command occur, due to the extreme diversions, cover and tests.