whatevah Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I have heard from Richard Curtis that he will separate the new pup from the adult dogs for a few months. So the pup will bond to him rather than the other dogs. Spoke to a lady at a herding trial and she prefers to keep the puppy together with adult dogs so the pup can learn off the other dogs to learn dog manners etc. Was wondering what ideas people have about these two theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I keep a puppy seperated while I am out but together while I am at home. This way you get both ways. I would hate to come home and find a puppy injured or even worse dead because play got too rough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 K9: I recommend that pups be raised separate from other dogs, pups raised with other dogs become more bonded to the other dogs than the owner making training mor difficult later on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) It cracks me up to hear people worrying about pups not bonding with them, I don't know why they worry so much Chazer was born here, has hardly had a day away from his mother since birth and is more bonded to me than any of my other dogs, and he is 3 years old. He is very attentive and easy to train too Having said this though I wish I had taught him to be separate to the other dogs from time to time as a pup as he certainly doesn't like being left without any company, either dog or human Edited May 14, 2007 by helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 H: It cracks me up to hear people worrying about pups not bonding with them, I don't know why they worry so muchChazer was born here, has hardly had a day away from his mother since birth and is more bonded to me than any of my other dogs, and he is 3 years old. He is very attentive and easy to train too K9: this is just one case your quoting... & you also say... H: Having said this though I wish I had taught him to be separate to the other dogs from time to time as a pup as he certainly doesn't like being left without any company K9: so not sure why it cracks you up? If this dog was raised separate you would not have this problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noneybur Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I have a working property with working kelpie pups and a working border collie. They are chained up during the day (separate but can see each other) when I am away and when I am home they all run together, unless I am working them. My dogs work excellent with me and the pups have been taught manners by the top bitch as she is pack leader when we are not near them. That seems to work beautifully and a lot of people with working dogs will do similar to what I do. The dogs need to be with other dogs as well as they are a pack animal. They do learn from the older dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country joe Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I went through the keep the pup seperate stage. Now it is a modified version. Pup gets some time with the rest of the mob. Pup gets some time alone. Pup gets some one on one time with me. The pup is not in with the other dogs when I am not around. The pup will be penned next ot the other dogs. The pup gets one on one time with me when first let out of the pen. I have not had any bonding issues. If I did I would modify my methods and increase seperation from the other dogs unitl I was happy with the pups response to me. But I wouldn't start from that position. I would however recommend that people who are just getting their second dog start with keeping the dogs seperate. Country Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 CTD - I do the same as Ivasis.... They are seperated during the day while i'm at work and together when i'm home. That way they can bond appropriately to 'me' and learn proper dog manners. I also - like you have done with Tia - do heaps of work taking the individual pup out on it's own for a chance of social etc . I feel guilty leaving Leo at home though since he is home alone - would be easier with another dog to keep him company . But then he also comes out with me too on his own also I'm always worried that some freak accident will happen while they are together - but one accident did happen while they are seperate (not related) , so now that they are a little older they will spend some days together while i'm at work - probably 60 seperate: 40 together Helen said: Having said this though I wish I had taught him to be separate to the other dogs from time to time as a pup as he certainly doesn't like being left without any company, either dog or human which is the exact reason I keep mine seperate at least part of the time so that they are independent in themselves and can function as an individual unit and not stress when part of their pack (dog or human) are taken away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I always keep my dogs together. In my experience i have never had a problem bonding with them. Maybe it is because i do alot of one on one work with them and take them out and let them inside separately. They love each other but they love it more when they can be with a human and dont miss the other dogs for a second. Maybe it has more to do with how they are managed rather than just keeping them together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I've not had 2 dogs before. I've had our pup with our 6 year old dog since he came to live with us at 9-10 weeks of age. I've noticed that pup has bonded with our other dog, but with us also. Is this breed dependent to some extent? The pup is a standard poodle, dog a miniature poodle, and poodles are normally people-orientated dogs. My thinking, initially, was that keeping them together would help pup settle in here. The standard is now about double the size of the mini. Mini makes up for this by being agile in play and play doesn't seem dangerous to either dog. They only spend short times separated e.g. I take the mini for >1km walks (no good for pup). I've gated the back deck stairs, but the mini can squeeze under, so they can spend a bit of time apart if the mini wants to. Neither dog seems bothered by this separation. Have I set up potential problems for the dogs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Maybe it has more to do with how they are managed rather than just keeping them together. I think that is the key thing here. If they are managed so that they can be independent individuals and the owner has enough time to spend with each dog (on it's own) they won't have a problem. I think for those with more dogs though it may be easier to keep them seperate at least part of the time so that they can also have a break from the other dogs I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesomil Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 (edited) I think for those with more dogs though it may be easier to keep them seperate at least part of the time so that they can also have a break from the other dogs I guess. I have 4 dogs here. I dont believe they ever need a break from each other, they are pack animals after all. But saying that, they are still managed and taken out separately sometimes and always given time inside separately so they have no unhealthy attachments. If one wants space, it will walk up the back and have a sleep under a tree. Edited May 14, 2007 by jesomil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 I am a very strong supporter of the "separate the new pup" theory. I learnt by my mistakes - my first 2 dogs are totally bonded to each other, not what you want if you wish to participate in any kind of Dogsport, and maybe not you want at all. When I got my 3rd pup, she was kept separate from the other two. She was with me all the time either in the house or in the house yard, while the other 2 had the run of a few acres. At night all the dogs were together in the house. She was kept this way for approx 8 months when she was occassionally allowed out to roam with the others, by this time she was always ready and willing to spend time with me whenever I appeared rather than the other dogs. Don't even have to recall Benefit was that she learnt all the good things in her life always came from me, not the other dogs. I have a closer bond with this dog than I have ever had with any other dog. If I get another pup I would do the same thing without question. Susan Garrett also advocates taking this approach in her book 'Ruff Love' or maybe 'Tuff Love', can't remember which it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I agree with jesomil and my situation is similar with 4 dogs that spend alot of time together and work with us as individuals or sometimes i will take two out at a time depending on what clients i'm seeing etc. When we get our next pup i will socialise rather than neutralise as i think there are advantages and disadvantages to both and the pup will spend quite a bit of time with the other dogs and have lots of one on one with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 (edited) I left my youngest dog together with the older dogs when I was at work during the day but I made sure he got time home alone (mainly when the older dogs were exercised) and also got taken out alone. He got an hour alone every morning and got taken out by himself a fair bit. Had there been a big size discrepancy between the pup and the older dogs, I'd have separated them. I'd not leave a big pup and small adults or a small pup and large adults alone unsupervised - too much can go wrong. Edited May 15, 2007 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 When we get our next pup i will socialise rather than neutralise as i think there are advantages and disadvantages to both and the pup will spend quite a bit of time with the other dogs and have lots of one on one with us. What do you mean you sill 'socialise' rather than 'neutralise' cosmo - I don't think i've heard of that before. Mind you - even though my two are separated, they do spend heaps of time together - I only seperate them so that there is less chance of a pup getting injured as well as them not becoming too dependant on each other. I still think that the owner can bond appropriately regardless of whether housed together or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippi Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 (edited) When we get our next pup i will socialise rather than neutralise as i think there are advantages and disadvantages to both and the pup will spend quite a bit of time with the other dogs and have lots of one on one with us. What do you mean you sill 'socialise' rather than 'neutralise' cosmo - I don't think i've heard of that before. Mind you - even though my two are separated, they do spend heaps of time together - I only seperate them so that there is less chance of a pup getting injured as well as them not becoming too dependant on each other. I still think that the owner can bond appropriately regardless of whether housed together or not Maybe you would be interested to read this thread leopuppy( The thread is here...) it will give you plenty to think about and maybe rethink. This is what I will be doing with my next puppy. Damn, that link didn't work. I don't know how to fix it. Do a search for 'Neutralisation' and K9 Force, you should find the thread. Sorry 'bout that. Found it, hopefully this works - http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?...=neutralisation Edited May 15, 2007 by Pippi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Going slightly Thanks for the link Pippi - I found that fascinating. I must say, I would sit somewhere in the middle though. I don't want my dog to 'ignore' everything. But I would expect them not to run up to a dog off leash unless I say, come back when I say and also 'leave' something if I say. If that hinders my dogs working ability slightly - or takes me longer to achieve it, then so be it. I think you can do a little bit of 'social' and a little bit of 'neutralisation'. I found that read fascinating. I must say there are some things that I want my dog to be 'social' to as opposed to 'neutral' though. Like Ness said in the thread - I don't want a dog that gives me attention 110% of the time also . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 L: Thanks for the link Pippi - I found that fascinating. I must say, I would sit somewhere in the middle though. K9: And that is just it, you can set the "values" anwhere you like, depending on your goals.. L: Like Ness said in the thread - I don't want a dog that gives me attention 110% of the time also K9: no dog ever will give you 100% attention all the time because you wont 100% of the time want it or be returning rewards for every bit of attention given, so it becomes a nice balance.. I give give my dog eye contact, she will come to me, I can pat her, when I stop patting her, she leaves me & gets out of my way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I must say it is fascinating K9 - did you 'think'/ devise it yourself, or had you heard or it elsewhere? Hope you don't mind me asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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