Kaz Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 A friend has a rescue pup who is extremely fearful. In fact he is terrified. He has been this way since he arrived and hasn't improved at all. He is basically scared of anything new - people - dogs - all situations. He is ok with his siblings and carers, but that's it. My concern is that if this is not addressed, she could end up with a dangerous dog on her hands. I am going to attempt to bring him to my place and work with him on socialisation. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabel964 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Gosh no idea how to help. Poor little sausage. I wonder what caused this. I guess one on one patient love and care by someone willing to gain this dog's trust would be ideal. I'd love to know how this goes and send my love. At least he is getting a good chance with you guys. Thanks for being so wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 We're not wonderful - the pup is absolutely adorable! Wish I'd got him as a foster from the beginning he's so cute. The only halfbaked plan I have is not to baby him and encourage his fearfullness. gradually give him exposure to more new things and give him lots of encouragement. It might not even happen as he may be too terrified of my dogs for me to even take him. He hasn't met them yet. And they are VERY big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Do you have a behaviourist involved with your rescue? I would talk to them, sometime by doing the wrong thing with a fearful pup you can make it worse Goodluck, when they come back from this they are wonderful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tryamartimmy Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 You're right in not encouraging the pup when it displays 'fearful' behaviour. The less attention you pay to that behaviour, the better. Some trainers suggest that when you introduce new things/people, you don't drag the dog towards them, but leave them where they are and you yourself go and investigate the new thing. Play with it, play with their toys around it and make it look like a really good time. They say that the pup will usually come towards you and tentatively examine the new object once they can see that YOU don't find it fearful. Once they show interest in it, approach or even touch it, reward them profusely. When meeting new people, ask the dog to sit and then try not to look down at it (don't make eye contact as some dogs find this treatening). Make sure that the only time you praise or give any attention is when it's doing the right thing. Lots of dogs respond better to visitors and strangers if you give them treats to calmly present the dog upon meeting. Just make sure they kneel and offer it palm out, but don't go for the big pat over the head. Stroking under the chin or along the sides of the body is a lot less offensive to the dog. Hope this helps- I'm no expert by any means, but I have been doing a lot of research into this lately.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I'd consult a behaviouralist but the best advice I can give is to hasten slowly. Let the pup spend as much time as possible with socially confident dogs. Never force an interaction.. let the pup call the shots. You will have to be realistic about what can be accomplished with a pup that's missed out positive interactions during such an important developmental period. Timidity may or may not lead to aggression.. that's for a qualified professional to advise on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Wish i was nearby to help, we are/ haverehabilitated a terrified, panic stricken dog to a point and continue to do so as she is our dog (ex shelter) and while improved beyond our expectations, she still has a way to go. feel free to pm or email me and maybe i can offer my general thoughts. Hard without seeing the pup though- any chance of a video?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pesh Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Good on you for trying to help. Yes, your right, it could turn and show fear agression. Slowly introduce it to a new things. Sit in the front yard with a long lead, let it smell things, as the confidence builds, walk a couple houses down. If you have a GOOD training class it can help. Simple things like, sitting way from the training and telling the dog what a good dog it is, when it is being good. It's going to be rough (depending on the dog) but each week bring it in closer to the class. This can also be done at dog parks, preferrable at this stage and on leach walking track. At home, obedience train, with constant praise and LITTLE treat bits. Last thing you need is a dog that doesn't understand sit and stay when your trying to socialise. If you have a friend with a dog that has that "I don't care" attitude, great. Use it. Put both dogs on long leads in a neutral area, maybe a park and let the relax dog do what he does naturally, sniff and doesn't give a hoot about the pup. Soon the pup will relax, and learn from this dog. Could go on and on, but might be worth a look what others have said in past threads. Remember it's could be a long journey, but one worth while. Same here, wish I was closer. Good luck........................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 (edited) Depending on the level of fear, sometimes gradual desensitisation is not possible or effective, particularly as critical distance will be breached regularly. We used some flooding with our girl which, while it worked incredibly well and got her to the point where we could then gradually desnsitise and build confidence- i would not recommend you do without assistance as if done incorrectly, it can make problems much worse. Edited May 15, 2007 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Keep the helpful hints coming guys. I'm afraid we have no behaviourists in our group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Kaz, is a video possible? If so, i'm happy to volunteer to consult with you from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Thanks Cosmolo. We are going to try him at my place later this week or early next week. If it works I can get some video on my camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 as said above - ensure you/owner are not reinforcing the fear by comforting. Take pup and sit on a park bench somewhere just sit and wait, dont walk about or try to encourage him to investigate things - dont pay too much attention to pup - he will learn in a bit of time that all the normal things are fine and will begin to relax. keep the sessions short to start with, dotn pander to him stressing. Go somewhere quite without offlead dogs or anything running around. maybe just a local bus stop? but just sitting in the same place he can take things in rather than being rushed by everything. Most importantly it must be be a safe area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I haven't read this book but it comes highly recommended: "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. I know of several handlers who have used it to help overcome fear and aggression problems. Good advice from other DOLers BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 The suggestions received are good- but only if the dog has low- medium levels of fear. Otherwise, by taking the dog to an area where the very things the dog is afraid of breach the dogs critical distance (distance at which the fear is exhibited) you are not desnsitising but flooding and are likely to carry out incomplete flooding. Sometimes it is not possible to start with slow desensitisation as much as we would like to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Thanks Cosmolo. I've done a bit of work with a fear aggressive adult so I have a basic idea of the concepts but have never done anything like this with a pup - and one that is not showing aggression at this stage, I have to add. Most of the hard work was already done by my dog's foster mum, but I had to smoothe out a lot of rough edges (with help from k9 force). I don't like the idea of flooding - best left to the experts. Slow and steady is my plan. I think I need to understand a bit more about puppy develpment. I'm not a real puppy person myself and have very mimimal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Kaz, flooding doesn't always have to be high intensity and stressful. Without realising it you may end up doing some flooding so its important that you know if/ when your using it even though it may not be your preference/ intention. I am flat out tomorrow but i'll try to pm you some information on what we did with our girl and what you could consider trying if appropriate, in the next day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted May 17, 2007 Share Posted May 17, 2007 (edited) A friend has a rescue pup who is extremely fearful. In fact he is terrified.He has been this way since he arrived and hasn't improved at all. He is basically scared of anything new - people - dogs - all situations. He is ok with his siblings and carers, but that's it. My concern is that if this is not addressed, she could end up with a dangerous dog on her hands. I am going to attempt to bring him to my place and work with him on socialisation. Does anyone have any advice on how to handle this? I'd reccomend she head to the book store and purchase a book by Jan Fennell called Dog Listener. There's even a case story of a terrified rescue dog in there. I personaly wouldn't be using flooding, it can so easily backfire if out carried about by a professional. Edited May 17, 2007 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I do not like flooding either, unless you are a trained professional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaz Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 (edited) I've read Jan Fennell's book. I even have half of it left after a foster dog decided to have a snack Will hopefully take him later this week as the renovaters have just ripped out two walls and a bathroom and our house should be put back together by then. I don't want any jackhammering while puppy is here. Edited May 18, 2007 by Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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