Where Do You Train Your Dogs

[Henrietta]

Hi guys

Where do you train your dogs?

Do you find it is better at home or at a familiar park or oval?

I train my Chi for about 20 minutes at a time, but I break it up into two ten minutes session, with a little game in between. She is just over 5 months old.

I have found that she is much more responsive at obedience or training away from home. Is this normal? Or just an individual thing?

At home she gets distracted easily. I lock the other dog in and the cat (the cat is in love with her and will follow her around ) and I pick up anything else on the lawn that could distract her.

I understand that later on I should be getting her used to distractions, but when we train at home we don't tend to get far. She will start playing in the grass, despite me trying to get her attention. I will get her attention but she will drift off again. I am starting to think she is not enjoying it, but she loves it at obedience. I admit that towards the end of obedience she starts digging the ground. She never digs at home I think the session at obedience may be a bit too long for her (about 45 min?) but she does enjoy it, up until the last bit.

Would I be better off going to another place to train for now? Any other tips for getting her attention?

Thanks in advance.

ETA - am I putting to much emphasis on where I train? Should I be able to get her focussed regardless or am I in the beginning better of somewhere where she works best? I'm a bit confused.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Emmala

[Sne]

I try to vary where I train - though I still keep most of my work at home. Most things I start working inside the house, and move around in different rooms. Then I progress to outside, and then finally to a high distraction area like the park.

With my toller I've noticed that when we get to obedience classes he KNOWS he's there to do obedience, and is far more attentive and excited about the work. I think it may be partially due to the fact he gets that early socialisation and that really hypes him up a little too.

I'd be working where you know can get her attention/where you know she enjoys it, and then work towards getting attention in the backyard. Maybe you could solely do focus work in the backyard rather than other obedience so she learns that paying attention in the backyard is really fun and worth it.

[Henrietta]

With my toller I've noticed that when we get to obedience classes he KNOWS he's there to do obedience, and is far more attentive and excited about the work. I think it may be partially due to the fact he gets that early socialisation and that really hypes him up a little too.

That is exactly what Abby is like!

We are currently doing a beginners course which I think runs for another 3 weeks. Perhaps I could take a break after it is completed to concentrate on the basics at home like you said. Get her really enthusiastic about working for me.

Thanks for the suggestion Sne, I will keep it in mind!

[Arya]

Hi Emmala, if your dog starts digging at obedience the session is definitely too long for her LOL!

Seriously though, don't let her get bored. If she is in the early stages of training look at what rewards system you are using. Food? Ball? Tug toy? Maybe you are using the wrong reward for her when training if she won't concentrate in the back yard and would rather be playing. I train new stuff similar to Sne. In the house first, in completely no distraction area. Then back yard, then favourite park. Then I move to every park in the area I live in and proof the exercise. Then dog training where there are lots of other dogs. I have noticed that dogs at training sometimes work like this:

Arrive - leap around and play up.

In class - good, as they know that everyone is working.

After class - go nuts again

They do seem to know what it is all about at obedience classes. I agree you need to work where you get the most attention. If your chi is not enjoying working in the back yard I'd still have a look at your motivator though. Remember, you and the motivator need to be more interesting than anything else, wherever you are working. I've learnt this to my cost with my own dog at times, I can tell you! Good luck!

[Henrietta]

Thank Arya.

It is quite embarrassing when she starts digging at obedience yes It seems to be just 10 mins too long I think. What should I do in this situation? Would it be rude to have a time out in class and join for the last five minutes, I am definitely not comfortable leaving early, maybe I could just watch on the sideline?

I use a combination of treats and tug toy, I used to use just treats, but she works really well with the toys too, I am even thinking she enjoys them more, although she does tend to get a bit overexcited with them.

Thank you, what you (and Sne) are saying makes sense, in a room first no distractions, moving on to the backyard and then to a familiar park and then start proofing. I will work on getting her motivation levels up.

Remember, you and the motivator need to be more interesting than anything else, wherever you are working.

I think this should be my golden rule!

[Sne]

Would it be rude to have a time out in class and join for the last five minutes, I am definitely not comfortable leaving early, maybe I could just watch on the sideline?

When I see my dogs getting distracted/bored I always pull them away from the group and have a little play. Or if I know my dog is tired near the end of class, I just don't do much more obedience but try rather to keep him focused and motivated - there's no point pushing a dog past its limitations. There have been the odd days where he just wasn't wanting to work and so I decided to just go home instead of making everything worse for both of us.

[Henrietta]

Would it be rude to have a time out in class and join for the last five minutes, I am definitely not comfortable leaving early, maybe I could just watch on the sideline?

When I see my dogs getting distracted/bored I always pull them away from the group and have a little play. Or if I know my dog is tired near the end of class, I just don't do much more obedience but try rather to keep him focused and motivated - there's no point pushing a dog past its limitations. There have been the odd days where he just wasn't wanting to work and so I decided to just go home instead of making everything worse for both of us.

That's good Sne, I won't feel so bad now. A little game on the sidelines will not hurt and I'm sure the instructor will understand. I would hate to do more bad then good from continuing on when Abby is just not focused enough.

[Erny]

Something to look at from a different angle .......

Is it you who is beginning to tire (doesn't have to be boredom - could be physically or mentally) at training? Flattening out in your responses/focus/enthusiasm? This could have a bearing on the digging behaviour which is exhibited and which in itself can lend towards the boredom of the dog (assuming boredome is a cause for the digging). Is your dog clear on what you are asking? Digging can be a displacement behaviour in times of confusion.

Are you perhaps not as consistant with your training at home as you are at obedience school?

[Henrietta]

Something to look at from a different angle .......

Is it you who is beginning to tire (doesn't have to be boredom - could be physically or mentally) at training? Flattening out in your responses/focus/enthusiasm? This could have a bearing on the digging behaviour which is exhibited and which in itself can lend towards the boredom of the dog (assuming boredome is a cause for the digging). Is your dog clear on what you are asking? Digging can be a displacement behaviour in times of confusion.

Are you perhaps not as consistant with your training at home as you are at obedience school?

Wow some things to ponder, Erny. I am going to obedience tonight actually so I will see if I can pick any changes in my enthusiasm/focus up. I wish I could get someone to come along to observe, that would be a better way to go about. I might subconsciously remain enthusiastic and focused because I know I am testing myself out.

Is Abby clear on what I am asking? Normally she starts digging when we have stopped and are awaiting the next instruction. Other than that, she is pretty responsive I would say. Just when we are awaiting next instruction her mind wanders off (well from my perspective, like you said she could be confused/bored).

I would like to think I am just as consistant at home but lately I think I have been worrying more about her being distracted. I can see that she thinks that obedience is the place to work, I can see that with how she acts when she arrives and how enthusiastic she is during obedience (except for those times she seems distracted, right at the end). Maybe I have already instilled this in her inadvertantly? That training at home isn't quite as important as it is at obedience?

I mean maybe I feel this way without realising it and she has picked this up? Does that make sense? I do think training at home is very valuable though, obedience is not something you do once a week and forget about. You use it during all your interactions with your dogs for a start, but how to get the same degree of motivation? What can I do to give Abby the impression that this needs focus and enthusiasm?

[Erny]

I do think training at home is very valuable though, obedience is not something you do once a week and forget about.

You use it during all your interactions with your dogs for a start, but how to get the same degree of motivation? What can I do to give Abby the impression that this needs focus and enthusiasm?

Difficult to answer unless I knew what you were doing at home. Has she learnt that at home (during general interaction) that what you say isn't necessary what has to go? Has this broken down her generalisation in training? And could this be the point of inconsistency that's caused/causing it?

Even when you use the taught obedience skills around the home, releases should still follow as well as reward. As to the level of reward and its schedule (ie consistant; intermittent) depends on the level of training she is up to. But be mindful that IF you are going to use a command, you need to be in a position to enforce it. Manytimes that's where people fall down .... they tell the dog "sit" or "out of the kitchen" but because they are not in a position to do anything about it (or it is too awkward for them to do so), they are not prepared for when the dog doesn't comply.

Compliance/reliability can be increased by short bursts of training (on lead for control if necessary) in the back yard and as another poster here has suggested, in various rooms throughout the house, as well as in the front yard, etc. etc. This is called "generalisation".

Oh - and hey! You picked up on the "look at thyself" bit pretty quickly. Can you get someone (even someone already at training but not busy with a dog) to do you a favour and video tape you? Problem with that is we're quite often so consciencious about the fact we're being taped, that we behave differently anyway ;) . But it can help and I do think it is worthwhile.

Even the top Olympic horse competitors need someone on the ground to coach and critique them.

[dogdude]

Hi Emmala

Just remember that dog school is there for your benefit, to later benefit the dog. It is up to you, and you alone to manage the dogs enthusiasm. As you are the one to fork out your money, you are entitled to leave when you please. This is an understated important part in dog school, if you want to keep their mind fresh.

As soon as an exercise is finished during class, I will let my dog at ease, while listening. I do not make my dog sit at heel until the start of an exercise, even if I am a little late to move off when the instructor says to. I found it much easier to develop the "on/off switch" that way, rather to bore them with one long concentration period.

At various clubs/schools you will hear the instructor say things like "while your waiting for me to finish talking, treat it like a sit stay". You dont train for an hour at home, so dont try it at dog school.

The best way for your dog to learn is by training for very short periods (5 minutes) a few times a day. Dont train through the whole obedience routine, just concentrate on acheiving excelence with one exercise at a time.

If you plan to go onto competition, picture the perfect response in your mind, and dont move forward till you have acheived it to the most part.

With a pup that age, or any age in fact, make sure that it is kept motivated the whole time, otherwise, call it a day.

[Henrietta]

Difficult to answer unless I knew what you were doing at home. Has she learnt that at home (during general interaction) that what you say isn't necessary what has to go? Has this broken down her generalisation in training? And could this be the point of inconsistency that's caused/causing it?

Even when you use the taught obedience skills around the home, releases should still follow as well as reward. As to the level of reward and its schedule (ie consistant; intermittent) depends on the level of training she is up to. But be mindful that IF you are going to use a command, you need to be in a position to enforce it. Manytimes that's where people fall down .... they tell the dog "sit" or "out of the kitchen" but because they are not in a position to do anything about it (or it is too awkward for them to do so), they are not prepared for when the dog doesn't comply.

I will admit that under circumstances where too much is going on or I am not focussed on her, I will ask her to do something and it may just not happened. Am I in position to reinforce it? I should be, but sometimes I can't just drop everything.

I do know that consistency means just that, consistency so this really shouldn't happen. I should always be in a position to enforce a command. So I am better of removing her from my presence or removing myself so that I can't command her do something that I cannot follow through.

Having said that, it is rare that I don't have full focus on her when I ask something of her. I have only found on the odd ocassion when things seem a bit to stressful that I let her down. And sometimes I am honestly shocked when she doesn't comply. For example sit. I think she has known almost since I got her. She is not silly, she knows what I expect but ocassionally she'll test me.

And then I am so gobsmacked that she won't sit, I miss the moment to correct her. I am much more prepared for the things that I don't consider her to be up to standard as yet. She can be a stubborn little thing or so I think compared to my staffy, but it could be the way I relate to her as well. I may need a different approach with her.

I like the idea of short bursts of training. I think I am a bit too structured, always the same time of day, same place, same deal. Could it also be that she knows what will happen after practice (a game)? I will start mixing it up a bit.

Great idea about the video camera. I will see if a friend has one, but if not I could always use the digi and see if my brother could come along. Then I could really pick it to peices. With the help of my DOL friends! ;) Thanks Erny

[Henrietta]

Hi Emmala

Just remember that dog school is there for your benefit, to later benefit the dog. It is up to you, and you alone to manage the dogs enthusiasm. As you are the one to fork out your money, you are entitled to leave when you please. This is an understated important part in dog school, if you want to keep their mind fresh.

As soon as an exercise is finished during class, I will let my dog at ease, while listening. I do not make my dog sit at heel until the start of an exercise, even if I am a little late to move off when the instructor says to. I found it much easier to develop the "on/off switch" that way, rather to bore them with one long concentration period.

At various clubs/schools you will hear the instructor say things like "while your waiting for me to finish talking, treat it like a sit stay". You dont train for an hour at home, so dont try it at dog school.

The best way for your dog to learn is by training for very short periods (5 minutes) a few times a day. Dont train through the whole obedience routine, just concentrate on acheiving excelence with one exercise at a time.

If you plan to go onto competition, picture the perfect response in your mind, and dont move forward till you have acheived it to the most part.

With a pup that age, or any age in fact, make sure that it is kept motivated the whole time, otherwise, call it a day.

Thanks Dogdude ;)

Yes my instructor is a bit like the one you described, she kind of treats it like a sit/stay. Which I think is a bit ridiculous if she is going to do a demonstration or a lengthy explanation about something. I always end with a sit/stay and that would be fine if we were going to move off again straight away or within a reasonable time.

How did you develop an on/off switch for your dogs? How do you indicate that it is ok to be at ease and then get them back in work mode?

I normally pick out a couple of exercises for my training session, not the whole lot but I have at least one exercise that I know she can do without much trouble and a more challenging one (for her stage). This way I can mix it up a bit, but if she is having to much trouble or get frustrated, I can end on a high note.

Makes sense to strive for excellence before moving on though. We have quite a number of exercises going on at the moment, that need extra attention.

Alright, starting tonight, I will take her out if she has had enough. I am not doing her any benefit from continuing.

Cheers!

[Erny]

I will admit that under circumstances where too much is going on or I am not focussed on her, I will ask her to do something and it may just not happened. Am I in position to reinforce it? I should be, but sometimes I can't just drop everything.

I won't profess to being perfect here either!!! But at least be aware of it and that that time/s when you received non-compliance means you need to go back a step and train up for reliability. It's when we lose sight of what we do and how it has affected training/reliability that causes us to allow training to slip backwards too far and also to eventually wonder why, how and when it went out the window. ;)

By the sounds of it you're doing pretty well.

[Henrietta]

It's when we lose sight of what we do and how it has affected training/reliability that causes us to allow training to slip backwards too far and also to eventually wonder why, how and when it went out the window. ;)

That is like my worst nightmare Erny, training wise. Waking up one day and wondering how I stuffed up so momentously!

No, it's been very eye opening and interesting, training. First time I have ever taken it 100% seriously and it has really taught me a lot so far. Even really basic stuff, like consistency and leadership was a bit hard to grasp at first, I knew what they were all about, but had a bit of trouble implementing them. It's been a great learning curb so far, but as you can see, I always have another question to ask.

[Sayreovi]

I train out on our front lawn, backyard is too crowded, have plenty of room out front. Adds for good distranctions for general obedience and stays. If they are doing everything well there i will take it too actual training to work on other distractions, but generally they are the same both places as dogs and other people walk past when training out front anyway.

[dogdude]

Hi Emmala

Teaching focus teaches the "on/off switch". See TOT thread pinned.

Use a "starting work command" like "ready to work", or other, ask for a focus by luring, mark correct response with a marking word or clicker, followed by a "free" or "ok", then reward. The reward marks the "off switch".

This type of training has made a big difference in my dogs drive. When the dog is working well, you can slowly start to mark and reward small sequences rather than each part exercise.

Now, if only I could harness all that energy into a reliable down stay under distraction without reverting back to traditional methods

[rastus_froggy]

I would also say maybe try shortening your sessions at home, then when she is making it through a certain length then add a little time to it (perhaps just one minute).

I have just got a new dog and I as yet have not done more than 1 minute of training with her at any one time (she has already learnt a few tricks and I have only had her 2 weeks!)

[Henrietta]

Thanks Dogdude, I will work on the on/off switch. Sounds like it worked wonders for you.

Hey, you will get the down stay with distractions I am sure! Good luck with it!

Rastus_froggy - wow 2 weeks and your new girl has learnt tricks! That's great work. I am thinking of having short burst of training throughout the day, not too long, to keep Abby focused.