Frusemide And Its Effects

[barkon]

Hi all,

I know I'll be talking to the vet tomorrow but was just wondering if anyone has had any experience with using this drug. My darling Great Dane was put on this today, and I gave her her first shot at about 5 this evening. She sleeps inside at night, and I came in to the lounge before to find her not on her mattress, but on the floor, as there was a huge puddle on the bed! I put her out, and when she came back in to fresh bedding, she basically just lay on the blankets leaking urine. Is this a natural occurence when just starting a diuretic? To say I am unhappy about this is an understatement, as my girl needs to sleep in at night for the warmth, yet she will not be able to if this is going to happen.

Looking forward to some input.

thanks

Barb

[Erny]

To say I am unhappy about this is an understatement, as my girl needs to sleep in at night for the warmth, yet she will not be able to if this is going to happen.

Sorry - I don't think I know anything of the drug you're talking about. I'm sure there will be others who will respond and provide more information/help than I.

But as to the above, can you not lay some plastic down and/or limit her house access to non-carpeted areas of the house to protect your floor (I presume this is what you are concerned about) until whatever condition you are treating is under control?

Whatever her illness, I hope she feels stronger soon.

[blacklabrador]

I don't know what your dog's condition is but she must be retaining a lot of fluid.

Frusemide (lasix) is a diuretic. My guess is that it caused such a great shift of fluid from her body that her bladder was absolutely full and she was losing control. Once she loses the initial fluid it will probably settle down.

If she requires a maintenance dose of Frusemide make sure you give it to her in the morning. That will ensure that she does most of her extra weeing during the day. Lots of older people are on frusemide for heart failure - most of them take it in the morning, otherwise they are awake all night peeing.

[goldielover]

Agree with blacklabrador. It's a diuretic, so best given in the morning if it's just once a day.

[Poodle wrangler]

Frusemide (lasix) is a diuretic. My guess is that it caused such a great shift of fluid from her body that her bladder was absolutely full and she was losing control. Once she loses the initial fluid it will probably settle down.

If she requires a maintenance dose of Frusemide make sure you give it to her in the morning. That will ensure that she does most of her extra weeing during the day. Lots of older people are on frusemide for heart failure - most of them take it in the morning, otherwise they are awake all night peeing.

Ditto. A "shot" (injection?) is also faster-acting than tablets. Give in the morning and it should be all over by night-time.

I don't know what would cause her to be completely incontinent of urine, though, if this was never a problem b4.

[blacklabrador]

I don't know what would cause her to be completely incontinent of urine, though, if this was never a problem b4.

Sometimes if the bladder fills very quickly the normal stretching sensations that send the full bladder message don't happen. She might have just had pain rather than the "need to wee" feeling. Her bladder was probably filling as quickly as she was emptying it. In an adult this drug can cause the kidneys to filter off more than a litre over a half hour period. Thats a rate of 33ml per minute. You can imagine how that might upset the balance of the "storage and release" system of the bladder. A dane could be compared to an adult in this circumstance.

Lasix doesn't cause incontinence. It just created a set of extreme circumstances which probably confused the dog.

[barkon]

Wow, thanks so much! Yesterday our vet said that Konnie had congested lungs. Hence the frusemide. She is an 8 yr old dane and I guess things are going to start getting tricky. She is supposed to be on the drug twice a day, but will be checking with the vet this morning when I go to town. And yes, I am injecting it. We found her jacket last night and filled her kennel up with extra bedding, but I do have some plastic in the cupboard so might try that if things don't settle down. She is a rescue dog and tiny things out of the ordinary ( like plastic under her bed) put her in a spin, so will take things slowly. Obviously, she is just like me, cos the sight of her piddling everywhere sent me in to a spin also!

Our vet is great, but tends to overload with the information so that the questions I might have just don't make it to the surface.

Many , many thanks for the information.

Barb

[dogbesotted]

ok.. congested lungs???? heart related?

is Konnie on any other meds?

I have found that writing down my questions before i get to the vet helps me remember to ask them ( as long as i remember to take the list LOl)

I agree with what others have said. my beloved Jake had that problem when he started treatment for dilated cardiomyopathy and frusemide was one of the drugs he was put on.... when the body starts to get back into balance fluid wise this will settle down. diuretics can also cause imbalances in the body salts so aks your vet about that.

sending postive thoughts your way

H

[blacklabrador]

diuretics can also cause imbalances in the body salts so aks your vet about that.

Yep. It depletes the body of potassium. Humans usually take a slow release potassium tablet if they are on lasix.

[barkon]

So, should I be asking for a salt replacement as well?

I have yet to catch the vet as he is out on call. He said yesterday that he didn't get a good listen of her heart as her lungs were so noisy, also Konnie was out of her comfort zone and was highly stressed and panting lots. She has been regurgitating clear, frothy fluid for a while now, which was why I took her to the vet.

I should imagine that congestive heart failure is a real consideration.

Barb

[blacklabrador]

So, should I be asking for a salt replacement as well?

I think dogbesotted was referring to "body salts" in general. Sodium, magnesium, potassium etc. I don't think sodium is a problem with lasix - just potassium. It has to do with the way the lasix makes the kidney filter off the fluid out of the blood. It causes potassium to be lost in the process.

[Poodle wrangler]

Humans on Frusemide (Lasix) twice a day, have one dose in the morning (e.g. 6-8AM), 2nd at lunchtime (12PM-2PM) to avoid the weeing all night phenomenon .

The symptoms you describe sound like heart failure. When the heart can't pump effectively, the fluid tends to build up in the lungs (white, frothy fluid she coughed up) and difficulty breathing. Medication can help manage the problem, but doesn't cure it.

Sometimes a few different medications can be used together with better results, but it all depends on your Dane's health overall i.e. something to talk over with the vet. You have to decide what is reasonable to do in her case and given her age.

Table salt is sodium chloride. Body salts include the others mentioned by previous posters.

Potassium rates a special mention because very low potassium levels can precipitate abnormal heart rhythms (i.e. potentially fatal). Slow release potassium supplements can be taken, but I don't know about this in dogs, sorry.

Edited May 9, 2007 by Poodle wrangler

[Dogsfevr]

Have had a dog on it & get alot of dogs in boarding on it & not one has experienced that .

I do agree though the frothing & that sounds like heart failure.

My boy was a large breed & quite severe in his condition & the key was to make sure he exercised & wasnt allowed to just lay around.Being a giant breed make sure the dog is made to go out ,small walks etc etc.

As for urinating get some dry bed,if the dog does pee it wont be laying it & absord in the bedding.

[barkon]

Well, the vet says its an unusual side effect and that he wants me to stick with it for at least 3 days, preferably 5, to see if there is any change in the vomit. She has thrown up twice today ( I haven't been home, just seen the mess) so there is little change so far. She is in excellent health otherwise, eating well, active, coat good, loves to go for a walk, although admittedly doesn't run like she used to. We will just have to see how it goes. I do appreicate everyones input on this. Konnie is in tonight again, and so far there has been no accidents, but then because I didn't get home until late she didn't get the jab until late so I guess its early yet. I like the hours for injections that Poodlewrangler gave, so will try those to the best of my ability. I am also a bit slow on the uptake, as my mother has been on frusemide, so will ring her in NZ tomorrow.

To say that Konnie is stable tonight I think is a fairly safe assumption. Again thanks for helping to calm my panic. I understand that we are looking at heart failure and all those implications, and will take each day as it comes I guess.

Barb

Edited May 9, 2007 by barkon

[Koza]

Could you fit a nappy? Or the absorbent changing square nappy.

[MelodysMum]

My old boy Clowny who was PTS in 2004 had congestive heart failure. He was diagnosed about two years before he died. He was on Frusemide and he was given human Slow-K to replace the potassium lost. He was also on Fortekor to strengthen the heart beat (make it pump more effectively). He was really well until the last six months. Eventually the fluid started to build up more (it used to pool in his abdomen). For the last six months he had to go to the vet's about once a month and have the fluid drained from his abdomen. He was fine with it, he was always smiling. The vet adored him. One day, he just couldn't get up. We took him to the vet's and she told us it was time.

Hopefully you will have plenty more time with your girl.

[barkon]

Koza, thanks for the input, I'm not sure what type of nappy you would mean, but it appears that the incontinence has settled down. She is still vomiting though and I have a feeling the vet may well tell me to increase the dose, which will possibly start us all over again.

Wendy, I'm so sorry to hear your story, but 2 years is a positive thing for us. I"m afraid though, that with Konnie's background there is no way she would cope with the constant vet visits, so any intervention for us will have to be minimal. She was not her usual self yesterday, and even only ate half her dinner last night.... a first in the 6 years we've had the pleasure of her company. I have to go to Canberra today so won't be able to keep an eye on her, but hopefully she might pick up a bit today.

Barb

[barkon]

Hi!

Just thought I would let you know that the incontinence has settled, Konnie is still asking to go out at night though, whereas once she would last all night. On the bright side, the vomiting has stopped, so I guess we are on the frusemide long term now. My mother, bless her, is on a dose 10 times the size of Konnies!

Konnie is much brighter now, and came for a walk with me this arvo, she did lag behind a little twoards the end, but guess this is to be expected these days.

Thanks again for all your input.

Barb

[stormie]

Glad to hear she is doing better!

Another thing to possibly think about, is with her being an older female, it is very possible she could be suffering a slight urinary incontinance simply due eto old age. Basically in older females, the sphincter which prevents urine from overflowing becomes weaker and as the bladder fills, it cannot hold and just overflows out. It generally happens in their sleep because they do not feel their bladder filling, where as when they are awake they would, and would therefore go pee before it overflowed. So it could be possible that with her bladder filling up more than before, her sphincter may not have been able to hold it as well.

Obviously if it continues your vet will be able to to give you the answers, but was just a thought, and there are medications which can help with this problem, too.

Hope she continues to do good!!

[barkon]

Thanks Stormie,

Our vet had said exactly that, but I"m pleased to say the incontinence has stopped. Konnie is a neurotic darling with lots of things, but having injections just doesn't faze her, even so, I would like to avoid more drugs. I have to start her on pentosan next week ( waiting for it to arrive) which will be ANOTHER injection for the poor old darling, albeit only for four weeks.

Anyway, she is definitely feeling better.

Barb