Zorro_007

Cactus, so I gather that it is a biological necessity for dogs to ingest BHA, BHT and ethoxyquin also??? not to mention all the other rubbish that is added to pet food!!

Oh comeon Cactus, don't be so prickly....I am not lambasting this company, I am only stating COLD HARD FACTS. If I come to find out that other pet food companies are guilty of such cruelty then I will be only TOO HAPPY to do exactly the same, no more no less!!! I have to add though that if other companies were just as guilty it would be public knowledge by now, don't you think???!!!

I am sure that many of you have heard about the barbaric experiments that have taken place by Iams. This is mostly for those that have no idea and I would appreciate it if those that have heard about it yet believe in its products keep away from this thread as I know that you will simply try to disprove the claims and although I am no fan of PETA the truth cannot be ignored. Here is a link that will explain what Iams is guilty of. All that I have to add is that I hope that Iams is doomed and stops flourishing as a business and that those directly involved in these cruel experiments don't get to enjoy a single pretty penny :rolleyes: http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring04/P...etFood/Iams.htm And for those that are about to tell me that all companies conduct experiments, well all I can say to that is that when I am made aware of companies that inflict so much pain and suffering I refuse to buy their products and I can only hope that animal lovers out there STOP buying Iams/Eukanuba. These barbaric beasts should not be getting the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of their cruel, callous and cold hearted labour. Damn them all!!!

Panda, thanks for those links, quite an eye opener for those that didn't know but I have to say that I don't think it will make much difference for certain individuals, the comeback is always the same, i.e. that they feel that their dog is doing better on a commercial diet or that they don't have the time for a barf diet or that they can't bring themselves to handle raw meat, I hear the same story over and over again. The one excuse I have trouble accepting is that their dog does much better on a commercial diet! The mind boggles when certain individuals refuse to believe the truth about the pet food industry and the rubbish that they use yet don't have any problems believing all these outrageous claims from the pet food industry itself.....duh!!

With the number of dogs that I have I find it much easier and less stressful to hand feed them, a handful each at a time, it doesn't take long (20 mins) to feed them all and eliminates any risks.

ABSOLUTELY I wish this would be the case with everything but seriously doubt it esp. with pet foods

Hi Steve, you have raised some interesting points here. 1stly the reason that young pups catch parvo, even though it is assumed that they should carry adequate antibibodies from a dam that has been regularly vaccinated, is that unfortunately the antibodies are not sufficient enough to fight the dreaded parvo but by the other token they are strong enough to neutralise the vaccine and that is why even pups that are vaccinated at the age of 6 weeks still manage to catch parvo; it is false security to assume that a pup is protected just because it has been immunised at 6 weeks and a waste of both money and time. I have researched this subject for years and have spoken to vaccine manufacturers and have also spoken to vets that have researched this topic. Dobes and rotties tend to carry maternal antibodies for a longer time than most other breeds and that is why it is imperative that the last puppy shot is given no sooner than 16-20 weeks. A bitch that is not vaccinated yearly has less of a chance to pass on antibodies to her pups and this is, in a way, a good idea as the puppies will not have any lingering antibodies and hence there is a higher likelihood that the 1st shot will be successfull.

So true Lillysmum, also the muscle meat that is used in commercial pet food typically consists of tumours that are unacceptable for human consumption, a vet that also works as a meat inspector has noticed that bits of tumours were cut off and thrown in a bin and he questioned the workers about this and the response was "oh don't worry, this is only for pet food."

Gillibob - EACH and EVERYONE of my dogs are desexed except for the cavalier girls which I have bred last time they were on season and only once a year at that. Having the breeds that I have and only one of each would indicate that they are solely pets and not breeding machines. I abhor puppy mills and large scale breeders be it registered or backyarders!!

You have made a good point overall. Reason why I single Vets out? - Because this is a pet forum.

The only time that I would recommend commercial dog foods is when I get the opportunity to visit the various 'PREMIUM' dog food companies and can see for myself EXACTLY what ingredients are being used meanwhile I choose to trust a few vets that have done just that and make it a point to recommend the BARF diet

Well, since the majority of you have mentioned a new vaccination protocol as advised by your vet, has the vet bothered to explain that yearly boosts especially for the duration of the pet's life are not necessary and in fact a health hazard?? How about titre testing to check for antibodies so as not to revaccinate unecessarily??

KitKat - I am not trying to start an argument here but doesn't Royal Canin contain BHT, BHA and ETHOXYQUIN in the form of preservatives? Perhaps you could tell me if you find those preservatives listed in a bag of royal canin that you have in stock? I know that they once used them but I am not sure whether this is still the case.

HOORAY HOORAY Yodeller - I took a sigh of relief reading your post....I have been trying to spread the news but instead am constantly met with disapproval from some of the other posters....I still can't get my head around how people can be so trusting. Pet food companies are not policed and they can do pretty much as they please, we are talking about a multi-billion dollar industry here and I find it totally unrealistic that they would be using human grade foods. All the research that I have done and that of a few vets concerned about pet health has amounted exactly to what you have stipulated above and that is that all the refutes are used, things that should normally belong at the tip.

Cactus, unfortunately it is impossible to educate MUGS. Some people are born with the "ignorance" gene and they are simply a lost cause and unfortunately it's their pets that are made to suffer!! The ex-hubby of a friend of mine owns 3 maremmas and wait for it.....he feeds them baked beans with canned tuna and boiled rice every single day as he doesn't believe in pet food and to that I say Hurray but I don't think he has gone about a natural diet in the correct way, he has been told repeatedly by his ex-wife but still insists that this is the way to feed a dog and from what I have been told the maremmas are looking very thin and it's no wonder!!!

Morgan, sounds like the vets you have dealt with are few and far between, most vets that I know are living a life of luxury and I don't hold it against them by any means but I do when that entails sacrificing animal's health.....a fair few don't step outside the square to learn about different ways to treating animals besides what they have learnt at vet school and a few vets have said as much in magazines that I have read. As far as vets being on call, well once again those are few and far between....usually if an emergency takes place after hours you are forced to take your pet either to Lortsmith animal hospital (which are open till midnight) or the werribee vet. hospital; this pertains to the state of Victoria. And I can wholeheartly say that you have to be wealthy to be able to afford a/h treatment from the werribee vet. hospital as they charge exorbitant prices!!!

Too true, I know that given the choice there would not be a single dog in this entire universe that wouldn't sooner gulp down a bowl of real food in comparison to dehydrated devil may care so-called nutritious, preservative and additive loaded dry so and so. I do have my reservations about premium food companies using prime cuts of meat....I have heard stories being quite the contrary.

kitkat, I find it incredible that your dog is doing better on a quizzical dehydrated diet, wow wonders will never cease! Doesn't Royal Canin contain BHA, BHT and Ethoxyquin?

Oh KitKat, so I gather you would much rather opt for a dehydrated derivative hum?? I guess you are saying that dry dog food is better than human food, time for a switch perhaps? :p

I know that some vets do charge a lower price to vaccinate litters and quite a few simply don't; I was quoted on more than one occasion by different vets for the exorbitant price of $70 per pup for litter of 5-8 pups. As for as checking the pups, it literally takes them only seconds to give them a quick check over and have you noticed that no sooner do they insert the thermometer that it comes out just as quickly?? lol. I just find it absurd that they don't try to educate the public about maternal antibodies and encourage people to vaccinate the pups at a later age. """As much as I personally don't approve of over-vaccination, and the reliance on it for keeping vet practices solvent, I understand that many have a huge investment in equipment, property, staff etc, - MORGAN.""" So you are saying that vet's are justified in ruining a dog or cat's health by overvaccinating simply because of overheads?? ;) Even with overheads you will find that most vets that run a private practice becoming very wealthy in no time with properties, cars and holidays and, last but not least, fine champagne :p I have no objection to this as long as they enjoy the fruits of their labour by doing the right thing. It's nice to know though that there are some vets out there with a conscience who place a pet's health over and above greediness, they are few and far between but still I guess it's better than nothing

Just wondering what your beliefs are as far as ingredients used in PREMIUM dry dog foods?? Do you truly believe that prime cuts of chicken, beef, fish, lamb, etc etc are used in these foods as the main ingredient?? And pertaining to those that claim that vitamins are used, does anybody know what the quality of those vitamins are?? And also pertaining to the grains used in these 'premium' dry foods, what grains are used, does anybody truly know? Would really value your opinion on this. :p

I am a firm believer that vaccinating puppies at 6 weeks of age is far too young as they still carry substantial maternal antibodies and hence any vaccines that are administered then are automatically neutralised by these antibodies and that is the reason why puppies are given a series of 3 vaccines :p as a means of giving vets the opportunity to literally laugh all the way to the bank; vaccines only cost a vet a couple of dollars and yet quite a few of them charge up to $70 for a C4!!! I vaccinate my puppies the 1st time at the age of 8 weeks with a stronger vaccine that overrides a small amount of maternal antibodies that the pup may still have and then I recommend that they get a 2nd shot 4-5 weeks later. This doesn't apply for dobes or rotties as they are know to carry maternal antibodies for much longer so the last shot should be given at the age of 16 weeks. Just wondering what your thoughts are on this subject.

I agree with that! I guess people should ask themselves if they would like a diet that constitutes of dehydrated second rate material for themselves and whatever the answer is then simply apply it for yourselves. ;) I have a hard time believing that fillets of chicken or lamb or fish are used in dry dog food and this applies even to so-called premium dog foods, commercial dog food consists mostly of second-rate grains with low levels of protein and even those that claim to have added vitamins are not using good quality vitamins but I do agree that it's much more convenient to feed a dog a dry food because all you need to do is pour it in a bowl and hey presto the deed is complete whereas a barf diet is too much like hard work for some people, at least that is what I have been told upteen times by alot of people, both in person and in other forums, I have lost count how many times I have heard that people simply can't be bothered with wasting time preparing a barf diet :p

If it's kennel cough then it doesn't produce any nasal discharge but if you do notice a yellowish discharge from the nose then I would advise you to have them on antibiotics because it would be the bacterial form known as bordetella and that doesn't tend to clear itself with time but can progress in pneumonia... if it's a viral form then time is the essence to resolving itself.

Chooka, my dogs vary in weight from 40 kilos down to 8 kilos so I give the larger ones an EPO capsule 4x weekly and the smaller ones may get it 3x weekly. Same with fish oil. I don't often give them cod liver oil though for the reasons that I mentioned earlier. EPO is high in Omega 6 which is very good for skin complaints and I have found this to work for my dogs:)