bridgie_cat

did you enjoy the weather Pandii?? ;) I went - didnt know to look for you - not that I spent more time than I had to out of the car ;)

yup ;) I woulda liked a run in jumping today - it wasnt raining as much - but the wind was worse?? but wasnt keen to hang around if the morning was cancelled to see if the arvo was on! The drive back was fun though! Just before Heywood (?? think this is where we went - dont know!) a river had overflowed and was running over the road - a good foot of water we had to drive through!!! FUN!!! Lots of mini lakes etc on the road - and some trees but had been cleaned up before we got there! ;)

terrible trialling weather this w/e! Today was cancelled - yesterday, it literally did not stop raining ALL DAY! I was SOAKED!!! and it was SOOO windy - the little dogs refused the contacts for fear of being blown off the top! 3/4 runs she decided she didnt like tunnels anymore (still went through - but got 3 refusals in three runs!!!) ?? ;) that was odd (possibly the wind?? not sure what happened there) BUT we got a pass in the last run of the day to get our novice agility title!!! ;) Bridget

go pearl! how exciting to have such great instincts pop up when your not expecting it! Good luck with her - she is beautiful - nothing better than beauty and function all in one package! Bridget

ok... this is not what I was expecting exactly... hehe... so - we have some with forms of the left and right direction commands... and another... cross is essentially the same but the cue for left or right is no longer the voice but your body position?? and then "out" is to go away on the same side??... does anyone use a word like "check" or even "turn" (but for a different behaviour) and expect the dog to look back at you for a hand signal telling them the direction?? Thanks for the replies - this is interesting stuff! Bridget

you need to play games with him and build some excitement in something that enjoys... then - put a word before the game starts (like "readyyyyy") - this becomes his word to "switch on", when you say "are you ready??" this means he is about to have FUN - find stuff he likes and play mini versions of it before you go in - if you can get a bit of crazy eye contact or slight bouncing movement to get him excited in the ring all the better!

Hey guys! I am asking this for a friend - Lana isnt advanced enough to need it yet The dvds/books teach different forms of left and right - but in competition I see many handlers that use "turn" - and seemingly for either direction... was wondering if anyone who uses such a command (or some form of a turning command - diff words and meanings all welcome!) could explain what it means to them/their dogs (ie what situations you use it/what you expect the dog to do on the command etc) and how you trained it! Thanks Bridget

May I present Ahanu Regal Dream HT It was v funny - she was a little feral and somehow managed to run the sheep from end to end (thus completing the criteria) in her mad game of chasey, all the while with me trying to get a nice circle - when the judge said "ok - stop her!" I thought he was pulling us out deserved or not - it is our first title

nerves on their own ok - but I think that nerves are often the cause of late signals and a general fall in the performance of the handler - which translates to how clear the messages are being given to the dog...

another scenario: (another sheltie - but an outgoing one) dog is again great in training, handler has beautiful signals/maneuvers in the ring - is she nervous?? im not sure - couldnt tell from her handling so dont think it is a factor... trained using food and very occasionally toys - but method of reinforcement seems to be varied a bit more than the first scenario. In the ring this dog occasionally does very nice runs - but went through a period of stopping and peeing on jumps at every trial (including at the home ground!), and often goes v slow and must be dragged around the course... sometimes sniffing, othertimes just not running! Bridget

PF - absolutely agree - "ring wise" is just another word for training issue! ok... I will give you the scenario... although this is onle one case and I have a fair idea of what we could try to fix it... would be interested in other examples that are fixed through training rather than through the handler (yup, most probs are caused by a nervous handler - but would like to hear of other causes!) Rather nervous sheltie, trained using a clicker and food - does beautiful, fast, independent work in training. In the agility ring - she is slow, unsure, sniffs, watches the judge... The handler is nervous in the ring and has a tendency to babysit obstacles (imo - ok, going for accuracy with limited trialling oportunity - but seems likely to be making the dog less confident - wouldnt be an issue with another dog - but this one is already a bit nervous)... there are a few options here - the judge is a small issue - she is getting better with this and I think if she was "switched on" as she is in training she wouldnt even notice him... The food is on a variable sched and hidden in a pocket... but still on the person - perhaps a factor. I dont feel this dog must be bribed so much - ie doesnt wait for food to be presented before attempting obstacles... but she does "turn on" when the clicker comes out... so certainly appears to be an association between the clicker and working. IMO - method of reinforcement must be changed to suit a trialling situation - ie food on the side and the dog works to get either a release word that means "ok - go get your food!" OR dog learns to work and then follow handler to the side for a reward! Bridget ETA - JMO - please feel free to suggest alternatives/additions to this that you think could help the less confident/focused dog...

Heya guys! Soooo... "ring wise" dogs - im not a fan of the theory that they just "know" they are in the ring etc - but would like to look at the other causes of poor ring performance compared to training... I have some factors in mind, but would rather that others come forward with what they have found to be most common or personal experiences with this and of course what changes/training can be done to overcome it! Bridget

may I join?? Lana had a great w/e at the Mount Gambier trial - it was our first ever agility/jumping passes and she got three out of four runs (2 ag, 1 j)!!! Three first placings!!! AND equal most successful agility dog for the w/e! Also our second pass in CCD Bridget

I dont know WHY they want them "flopped" - but it is in the standard - and most people think they are cuter like this The glue that I heard is used is eyelash glue - thus made to go on skin. Lana's ears are pricked - she had gum on them and as soon as it came off they flew back up again - many ppl say gum is BAD and makes the ears worse! I dont know - accept to say that her ears certainly arent right! The other thing some say is to just rub some baby oil under the ear, fold it and rub between your fingers to keep the leather soft and encourage the fold at that point?? dont know... personally I would go with the sump oil or glueing idea if I need to play with ears on my next pup! Bridget

you are quite right. I would love for one of my dogs to get to this point - and then it would be a matter of training control - which has to be trained anyway ... just tossing around potential probs - as it is not my dog I would hate to train something that will give issues later on! Although, in reality, the dog is very unlikely to get so confident that it is an issue... I like the idea of food coming from everywhere - never knowing = less of a "bribe" to go to the stranger - but perhaps will be less likely to cause the tap and quick turn back to owner as seen in most targeting exercises... leaves potential for a delay with the stranger as they decide if they have the food for them etc... Good thought on WHEN she can say hi also! I didnt even consider this! Great idea though as I have dogs that go NUTS when people arrive - if trained to say hi calmly first (ie after arrival when sitting down) and then move to more exciting stimulus, could avoid this perhaps!

so what do people think on the specifics - in particular, who should have the food? I can see benefits/problems with both... perhaps swapping between the two in different training sessions (I say dif sessions because I think in one sess would be too confusing)... am I missing any negatives with this training?? is it going to backfire at some point? The thing I can think of as a possibility is a dog that is TOO keen about running up to people - as this would be the shaped behaviour... thus could end up running up to every stranger and tapping them to see if they get a treat... just like they get keen and randomly take agility equip to see what you might want... but perhaps not as big a risk with a very shy dog. LP - what behaviour are you focussing on with your girl? ie just close - or a hand targer - any interaction?? what are you aiming for? Bridget

I am not very inventive. My usual is dry in the morning, some form of meat at night. Generally this will be chicken necks but will often use chicken wings, boneless cooked chicken, lamb flaps, kangaroo mince (as in the pet food stuff), any raw meaty bones... and on occasion will throw in an egg (note: whites should always be cooked as these are bad for them raw) or some cheese or kitty milk... or any good leftover meat from dinner etc etc... im sure you will get some of the v creative doggy chefs in here later! Bridget

Heya! Interesting question... has anyone ever tried clicker training an outgoing response to strangers? I ask because I have been helping to socialise a shy little pup that my friend has and we offer him food so he comes to us - he is fed as other people touch him etc - more of an extinguishing process than training him to like being touched and the food offering seems to be teaching him to come to people with food... not so much just to people. I thought it would be interesting to try and teach him to visit new people using the clicker! (he is already doing a lot with the clicker and is well versed with its meaning) My basic plan was to sit/stand/whatever near a person he is not overly familiar with (not a total stranger to begin with - just not one of his friends!) and click for him looking at them, move to click for an approach, click for touching, click for extended touch, click for letting them touch him?? essentially... although not sure if it would be better/easier doing a hand target to a stranger - ie they hold out hand as if going for a pat and he puts his head there! This leads to dif people, dif body positions etc... perhaps could even clicker for him nudging with head to try and fix his sensitivities about people touching the top of his head?? (yes - this is a fairly common dislike and justified - but the reaction could be lessened through training...) One question - would it then be best to have him run back to me/his owner for food OR do you have the stranger present the food so he is fed in position?? (equally im not sure if I want him to know they have food so it becomes a bribe...) Has anyone tried something similar to this? Even if you havent, any keen clicker trainers - what do you see as pros and cons of this idea? And of course any ammendments to the system etc - really just a rough idea at the moment! Bridget

definitely NOT the random clicking - perhaps that will get him over the noise - but it will completely ruin the effect of the clicker as you will have destroyed its meaning for him - the clicker would become background noise instead of its usual meaning of FOOD IS COMING - if you are not going to use if for training - go ahead and do this just so he doesnt freak out when other people are clicking... did you start him with high value food and simply clicking and rewarding? Generally the first meeting is so fun that they associate it with wonderful treats rather than scary noise... even if you did, I would go back to this - as it will help him get over the noise, whilst learning that it = food and is GOOD... you can get a softer clicker (some brands/styles are loud, others are quiet... the box ones are v loud) or you can use the lid off a juice bottle - ie the ones with the vaccum seal - again, a softer click. Bridget

RIP Kaeleigh... I am so sorry for your loss Pix.

tadpole - that sounds right!

umm... I have heard of modified jump heights in normal agility being done in melb... dont know who does it or what it is called - could just be a single club... not sure - just know a friends daughter did it with her oldie. Perhaps someone from vic will know something about this??

obviously not me (Lana = 2.5... she had better not be considering retirement!!!) - but a lady at our club is slowly retiring her 8 yo border girl - so in stages, less training, less trials (not that there are many down here!!!) - reason: old neck/back injury getting slowly worse so that she is on occasion refusing a jump ... she is still keen as anything! I would expect a really keen dog to continue jumping through some degree of pain - so IMO perhaps this dog shouldnt be jumping anymore - but regular breaks etc she does come back ok... hard call when she is so keen - but wont be doing it much longer. she is still doing obed work with her and I would expect this to continue for quite some time as there are no physical issues here and the dog is REALLY eager to work for her. if every stubborn/lazy dog was retired... with a clean bill of health and as long as there are no signs of pain, I would keep going! Perhaps shorter training sessions?? or more aquatic exercise?? anything you can do re changing up exercise/training that could give her more energy/save limited energy/concentrate energy into small sessions (like in a trial situation)? Ness has still got some good trialing years left

well, if they were at a good weight before you left - go back to feeding that or a little less (so they LOSE weight as oposed to maintaining a stable weight) - and regular exercise is great - but dont do too much jumping (ie agility) if they are very overweight as this will be hard on the joints... or you can do it on a low height to get training hapening without doing too much damage... nothing extreme - you want gradual weight loss... as I said - if you had them at a good weight before you left, they should go back to that if you return to your regular feeding and exercise program! BC

I think the INTRODUCTION of each should be separate (ie really new ideas and steep learning curves should not overlap too much ...) but past that, I enjoy training agility and obed at the same time AND herding when we get the oportunity! I know some people that like to do each separately and perhaps they get through an individual discipline faster for it - but I cant honestly imagine that there is enough time in a dogs life to master each area and compete if trained separately through to a high level!