Wazzat Xolo

Lab rat wont be down at the show this weekend as the handler I need to see for the Xolos will only be there next week 30th, so may see you then ? Sorry gor my weekends muddled up!

My main register pups go out at a higher price than my limited register ones. I work like mad to build relationships with my puppy buyers and the ones who want to show or breed get a hell of a lot more of me and my resources than the limited register people. They also get as close to perfect that I can breed. Our legal people have advised that the only way a contract for sale can be upheld is if the dog is sold for a different price for breeding than as a pet. I sell the dog on limited register at an agreed price on the condition that it isnt used for breeding.If the buyer breaches the contract and uses the dog for breeding then they agree to pay me the agreed difference because we both agree at the time of sale that a breeding dog is a higher price and the only reason they got the dog at a lower price was due to their assurances that it was not going to be bred with. Perfect Steve What Steve is explaining is the original "old school" breeding practices we would all expect from a good breeder. The more modern trends of selling faulty dogs for the same price and placing ego driven restrictions upon buyers rights of owning a good breedworthy dog is a trend I can't come to terms with easily or agree with. The breeders I have purchased from over the years have "ALL" had perspectives along similar lines as Steve's explained, and fortunately, there are still some "great" beeders like this I am sure you will find EVERY breeder with the MDBA has the same "old school" practices as you call them values. There are fortunately many out there with these ethics, may I suggest BB you join the MDBA ( if not already a member) they are striving towrads what Steve has mentioned in this thread and many more great things. Not just for breeders, but responsible owners too.

No I am sure it wast used in that way, just wanted to get a point across! lol

Oh I have seen it used on the "bogan" show called X Factor where people of varied talents attempt to wow judges I think Shaar was using it as a generic term in this instance ( much as the TV show)

Any breeder would have the same thoughts for wanting the very best for their chosen breed, whether rare breed or not so rare breed ( hate the term common) I am sure a Regular breed breeder feels the same way about their dogs and limited/ main register that I do. Its not the money side for breeders its the pride of a job well done and a nice end product, it only takes 1 person to mess up many years work, which is why I can see breeders have the contracts and certain requiremenst for some dogs on limited register and some dogs on Main register. With the ability to transfer from one to another this can be done. Anyway this little duck needs her sleep for tomz!

well said Whippets, Black Bronson YOU can learn a lot from the experienced breeders on here, that are here to help and advise newbies and people that have NO idea, we ALL never stop learning in the Dog Game it is only those that choose to absorb that become truly respected. Newbies need to be advised with the truth about main and limited register as I mentioned before, many newbie purebreed owners think that "ALL" pet puppies have to be on limited register like it's an ANKC standard requirement because that's how some breeders put it across.........pets go on limited. But what they don't explain properly is that pets from their kennel go on limited because they have chosen to do so, not because of any official requirement. So the newbie purebreed owner has just accepted the breeders terms after being given a conjob.............that's what I am talking about Some breeders forget to even mention the limited register and the newbie owner thinks that the papers coming in the post are the real deal which isn't fair is it???. JESUS give me strength Do you comprehend anything people say here BB. I can see what you say BUT each and every person who purchases a puppy whatever register SHOULD research about limited and main register for themselves, and I am sure 99% of breeders do tell the truth about limited and main register as its in the code of ethics we all abide by to not mislead people. I am not a conjob artist and I resent the fact you say people maybe, this is YOUR experience and I dont appreciate being lumped in with your experiences! Truth or fiction as they may be! Ellz wait for me !

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life. You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home I'm sorry but IMO that's terrible advice, it is far from being over the top just to have a dog on limited register. Most breeders FULLY explain what the registry means so there is no ripping off, or over the top demands going on. YES it is YOUR choice if you want to breed or show, which is why you should buy a dog papered accordingly. If you want to show, buy on main register, if you just want a pet then go with limited. These days a dog that comes with no papers at all is from a less than reputable breeder. By providing limited register papers at least you know there is a good chance that breeder is a good one and registered with the ANKC. The breeder isn't "challenging your integrity" they are covering their own @rse because I can tell you now, I can't count on my fingers and toes the amount of people who have lied to and screwed over their dogs breeder. Shaar, I am referring to breeders who won't sell on main at all for the opportunity to buy an appropriately papered dog???. I'm one of those breeders who put those going to pet homes on the limit register ( regardless of the show potential ) and sells/givesaway/co-own those on the main register to known and approved show homes. Tell me why it is, that I should allow every Tom Dick and Harry that wants a main register dog, to have one ? My dogs come from some of the most successfull lines and kennels in the country, their immediate pedigrees contain multi BIS and BISS winners, the dogs themselves have their titles, their close relatives have proven time and again their worth in the ring and as breeding animals. I don't have the right to take that and spread it around the countryside willy nilly , nor do I want to. Those that have come before me, have worked bloody hard to put those dogs on the ground and I respect that. When they handed me the dogs, they made me a custodian of their lines and hard work. Tom, Dick & Harry can't breed under your prefix ..........so what's it matter if their progeny has one of your dogs involved???. If the progeny is no good using your male and an inadequate bitch is not your fault. But is it more the use of your male with a better bitch and Tom, Dick or Harry's kennel earns some wins over yours that you are worried about???. None the less, if T,D or H are producing better dogs than you..........that's good for the breed isn't it???. Sell them on main, throw your hat in the ring like a true competitor............any one can keep winning with a shop closed to competition ;) the same old arguement pops up time and again. The breeder is afraid of competition and being beaten by their own if they part with them and in the majority of cases it couldn't be further from the truth. Then there is no valid reason to place breedworthy examples on limited register YES there is and I have ONE EXAMPLE. I breed Xoloitzcuintle ( in case YOU do not know there are only an estmated 4000 dogs world wide) this breed has fought back from near extinction with the blood, sweat and tears of very dedicated breeders who care very much about the very limited lines and the very precarious position the breed has been in and will continue to be in. In Australia I DO NOT want every dog I breed to be bred from, because this itself will add to the gene pool limits. I doubt people will import new sires as this is very costly, and I dont want my dogs to become as they have in the USA ( a DD breed by people who want a quick $$) I will only breed with the very best ( not just breedworthy) and in all probability not all coateds ( who are VERY breedworthy) this is my chpoice as a breeder and as I have much more experience with this breed than anyone else here, that is a VALID reason that has come from many great breeders with far more years of experience than all of us here !! I cant give you BB a simpler example so I hope this makes sense for this particular` breed. Other breeds will have their reasns based on many factors, this is something you seem to be missing in each post!

well said Whippets, Black Bronson YOU can learn a lot from the experienced breeders on here, that are here to help and advise newbies and people that have NO idea, we ALL never stop learning in the Dog Game it is only those that choose to absorb that become truly respected.

Has the pooper scooper broken then ? this is better than the Don Burke thread this is a Burk thread!

Once you've finished having a bitch about breeders maybe you can move on and whinge about why the poopa scoopa breaks after 5 uses. I would prefer to keep my responses on topic thanks Whippets Oh have I missed something ?

My advice to puppy buyers is this: If the puppy is of good quality and sold on limited register, go elsewhere as the conditions IMO are "over the top" as essentially, you are purchasing in reality nothing more than what used to be formally recognised as an unpapered dog Don't be fooled by the reasons why "your" puppy on limited register is best for you, it isn't best for you at all. Your integrity is being challenged what you may do with the dog and the breeder doesn't trust your intentions for one. Secondly, the choice to show or breed is your choice to make.........it's your dog, your life. You have done the right thing avoiding pet shops and BYB's to purchase a health tested pure breed dog. If you get the run around with restrictions and closed shop tactics to result in an unpapered dog, why not have a look at some rescue dogs instead which have the same restrictions as the limited register pure breed and are also in great need for a home if the puppy is of good quality and is placed on the limit register, then no buyer is being ripped off, providing they understand that they cannot exhibit or breed from the animal.... full stop end of story. What about the breeders who misconstrude the application of the limited register for people to misbelieve that pets "must" be on limited register by regulation failing to disclose that the idea is theirs only, not a requirement of the registration system. Many pet buyers are under the impression that main register by legislation can only be granted to show/breeding homes.........now, who told them that nonesense General Common Sense in this world tells one ( whoever they are) to check all information supplied whether that be by a Dog Breeder, Car salesman or washing machine salesman! I do check all info given to me and hence I assumed most people would never believe something unless they check the facts ? There is gullible and then there is lazy and ignorant gullible, JMHO

Which is precisely why Limited Register CAN be raised to Main Register upon application by registered owner and breeder of record. Not all breeders will raise a limited to main............seen some massive arguments over that before I am sure in the right circumstances any reputable and breed wise breeder would upgrade a limited register to main regsiter. NOTE I said in the right circumstances!

Thats ok Mystiqview I have had a barrage of "bloody idiots" emailing me lately re my breed and I guess its made me a bit short! lol Where on earth do all these nutters come from ? They cant ALL be from the Dog world surely! ll!!l

Well said Ellz and Whppets" After all it is Betterment of the breed NOT betterment of my social status in Dog Circles! Luckily the premier breeders rise above the Breed Politics and are highly respected by all.

You little floodle you! ! I just about spat the coffee at the screen on that one! ;)

;)

Something is way off there, otherwise can you please tell me where I can get the average weekly wage of $1200-$1500 same place you get the car, washing machine , new lounge! save save save! lol ;)

what an excellent post!

oh I will put it right back then Thanks for that!

You have a point when you are talking about a rare breed that is mostly from imports. In this case all your puppies should be more expensive to cover some of your costs but obviously pet buyers will only pay so much. Therefore I imagine you have to set a more reasonable pet price and try to compensate by charging a premium for breeding stock being sought by others. Fair enough. If others want to benefit from your imports they should have to pay for them. For those of us with common breeds where the bloodlines are pretty much the same if you go back 5 or 6 generations there can be no real justification for charging higher main register prices. Mystiqview, Libertybrook and I all have Border Collies so our perspective is different to yours. Australian Borders are exported to the world who all look to us for foundation stock. Imports are extremely rare and usually not sought after because they usually don't measure up to what we already have. Also showing Borders is extremely competitive and it is almost impossible to encourage any new exhibitors, so the last thing we want to do is discourage anyone from trying by charging them a higher price for a puppy with show potential. There are so few show homes available for the many show quality puppies produced that breeders will often place a promising puppy at no charge in an established show home in order to get it in the ring. Having puppies with our prefix succeed is the main objective. If others then benefit from breeding from them so much the better. We don't have people jealously guarding bloodlines because the lines are all mixed up anyway. IMHO "Protecting" Bloodlines is how I see it not a jealousy thing. So they dont get all mxed up

I prefer email and the completion of a Puppy questionaire, then I can tell if a Xolo will be suitable for that situation and go from there with phone calls if need be. :D

Sorry Mystiqview I didnt mean to come across at you or anyone for that matter, just my 2 bobs bit ! I wasnt aiming at anyone in this thread, it was just something I do, and everyone should as you say be aiming to improve on what they have started with, I know and hope I can. :D

I do know a breeder ( overseas) who actually doesnt want certain kennels to have their lines, they do put ridiculous prices on some dogs so they cannot get their lines. Having said that there are certain people I would not sell a dog to and would put a ridiculous price on them, and I personally like coownership arrangements. :D

OR You could just get hairless dogs!

Go to his Facebook page and type a breed link!