toy dog

im just remembering a past ex he had a sister that was close to 40 still living at home never been married, no kids and the boyfriend was the same. they'd been together for 13 years or so this was about 10 years ago now. her mother use to talk to her like she was about 6, when i was over there. i found it quite comical to say the least. nadine take your shoes off please you will dirty the carpet she was speaking to a 40 year old. you'll always be a kid to your parents no matter your age so they treat you accordingly especially if you live with them when you are that age. it was way past her time to move out and the boyfriend too from his parents. i couldn't understand why they were still living with their parents at that age i found it very weird.

im looking at my own breed and how its gotten there is by "some" not being honest, denying (got that alot from many breeders who felt toy breeds don't have a problem at all) then breeding with dogs affected, not really looking at the big picture how it will affect the whole breed not just their gene pool, the only way you find out about their dishonesty (PL) is breed the dog you bought. how do we undo it?

okay, just one persons opinion of the whole thing, so my dogs not having the disease present and appearing healthy (after being tested and screened thoroughly that is!) means that i am helping to decrease my breed. whatever. in my long story above in my own way i was answering the statement that pedigree dogs should be tested. i'll give a direct answer to that statement. I was putting up an example of how hard it is to implement any health testing scheme relevant to a breed. we could not do it. there were several people that tried. what do we do across the board implement a national testing of all known diseases to all dog breeds? trying to get all the breeders to agree to this was like getting blood out of a stone, we could not do it even conducting information lectures with state controlling body and the breed club, at the end of the day it was decided to "leave it to individual breeders discretion". so how would you implement wide spread testing of the pedigree dog all of the breeds? So what are you saying, in one instance you are saying that we should be health testing to breed out diseases and avoid inbreeding on the other hand you are giving me an article that suggests that we should put up with genetic problems and because dogs are small they are prone to them so to test and get rid of problems will get rid of a breed. so which is it? really not following all your articles obviously you agree with the guy that is writing all this stuff. we are talking about inbreeding and how what they have portrayed on the media is not the whole story. i think we should keep it simple for the general public to understand not long thesis and essays on for inbreeding against inbreeding. if we don't keep it simple and positive we will have lost the public completely and they'll continue to think that the bitsa is the only dog that can be completely healthy.

I can imagine what the returning comment would have been there some people take offense when you tell the truth and offer assistance(i tend to be a bit like that) and see it as putting them down somehow as the lady i was emailing must of. Most people that i deal with take what im trying to help them with and don't get offended. you're damned if you do say something you're damned if you don't, if you don't say anything at all, then you are a snob if you do try to assist you are a rude know-it-all. most breeders get these types of emails and just ignore not worth the stress, i try to assist but i say my piece politely mind you i am not ever rude then block them out as i know some people these days don't take too kindly to being told what is the truth. just my nature i suppose. but i get where you are coming from and it makes sense. alot of sense.

Yes thank you, this is an excellent example of the failed argument that she discuessed here; This is a rather weak straw-man that uses the some-all fallacy to suggest that if we can name a woe in purebred dogs that isn’t caused or exacerbated by inbreeding that we can discount or ignore all the problems that are. This neither proves nor disproves anything. Sorry as to the rest of your post, I am off now to town to shop. I also know when my point is missed and when to give up. But can you answer this, are there any of the 3 types of genetic dwarfs that make up the toy breeds that do not have patella problems? Of is is spread across all of the dwarf breeds? sorry but i really have taken offence to calling a toy breed "dwarf breeds" they have just been bred small but this does not mean that their limbs suffer because of being small. they have been in existance for over 2000 years in the same form. it was the americans who named this dog and selectively bred it to what it is today. what in your opinion is the 3 types of genetic dwarfs??? am i opening up another can of worms the disease can affect all toy breeds and some that are not classed as toy breeds, like poodles etc. as well. it is wide spread and common problem. ETA: i did read the link you put up and thats my conclusion to it all also i make my conclusion based on my experience for over 25 years with pedigree dogs. i did notice that there was a small statement in there about the molera in chihuahuas being a disease, it is not a disease, it is a feature of the breed and has been for as long as the chihuahua has been in existance in the current form. Not that breeders breed for this it just is there or not there. Most have not got this feature when adult but some end up with it. All mine don't have it. but referring to it as a disease is incorrect.

an ethical breeder strives to breed a healthy litter, by doing tests and using healthy examples, researching a bloodline viewing as many of that bloodline as possible to ascertain if there are any genetic problems that will be passed onto the produced pups. however, some genes being recessive doesn't rule out that we get that odd one that might be slightly affected with a genetic problem. All you can do as a breeder is inform the buyer of these problems, get the dog desexed so it does not get used in the gene pool. what else can you do? all dogs no matter what their breeding is has potential to be affected with a genetic problem whether we know the bloodline or it is not known (cross breed bitsas). just my thoughts. it just continually gets up my nose how these people are reporting on genetic problems when they are not reporting on the full story of what is actually going on here. To me the full story is that inbreeding and closed stud books are at the root of the need to do health testing. Health testing is looking for defective genes which are now wide spread enough in the breed as to be commonly found, which now require some sort of screening or testing for. That is ass backwards. Good breeding, ethical breeding, should mean that we are not making breeds that end up with wide spread health problems that need to be tested for in the first place. The whole system is geared to make health problems. Starting with the concept of purebred, which madates inbreeding forever on a small number of ansectors. The Kennel Club moto really should be 'Keep it all in the Family'. Inbreeding is with out question removing a wide selection of genes from each dog and eventually the whole breed, most of these genes we have no idea what they do or that we are removing them. Closed stud books force contiuned inbreeding even for those breeders who want to reduce inbreeding levels in their pups. This goes far beyond being ethical because we health test. It is the very foundations of how do and are allowed to breed dogs in the kennel club system that need a very close and honest review. I think the Uk Kennel club is starting to do this, I think they know they have to, it is no longer a debate or an option. Now we need to start talking about it, from the ground up, not from the top down. um where do i start, testing ensures that we are using the best healthiest examples available to us. some breeds, you cannot register a litter of pups until the pups are tested, GSD for example. im sure there are now others. in toy breeds, there is a wide spread of patella luxation, as everyone knows by now or they should considering i have a big mouth because i am passionate about all this :D i interviewed a few breeders wrote down information collated it all together as grading of PL is very hit and miss approach from breeders and vets. I got ear bashed and even threatened when i brought this whole thing up and all i wanted was to have breeders test for it before breeding their stock and also being honest with each other and themselves, it opened up a whole can of worms, some denied that our breeds had a problem mainly older breeders, some thanked me for my reports, some looked eagerly for the next report. it went to the national breed club and they ascertained that it is up to the individual breeder to get testing and to learn about this disease. so we didn't end up getting anywhere. wasted effort. there's been numerous people trying to start a PL scheme for toy dogs without much success over many years. its really sad and disgraceful. until this happens we cannot claim we are any better than the average joe blow breeding their dogs really is my honest opinion of all this. today there is 50/50 chance that a toy dog can have this problem it is very wide spread and some vets say it is normal. when it shouldn't be. there's still alot of breeders breeding in PL and either don't give a damn that their dogs are affected or try and deny and infer that their stock doesn't need testing at all because they are all healthy by the breeders general view. Some talked to me like as though i invented this disease in all dogs i took it to state controlling body to start having lecture days, clinics to inform breeders what we are dealing with, to just start educating on PL, got an answer back it is up to breed clubs, in turn breed clubs said it is ANKC. so everyone was handballing and nothing got done in the end. so i gave up. so i kept writing my articles trying to appeal to the average breeder, so as a result many new breeders out there who read my articles and take some of what i write onboard. my message: test, be honest, if found desex, don't try to breed out with infected because infected produced infected and this is how we have come to this point today. so you can lead the horse to water but you can't force it to drink. we need guidance by the higher authority and we aint getting it by what many say on here. how do you police breeders using affected stock when there are no compulsory testing of a genetic problem that is wide spread? How do you police dishonesty? ideally i'd like to see some move towards combatting patella lux. but we are a long long way from having that attended to. my brother said a funny thing one day he is someone that isn't in this whole system, not interested in breeding/showingdogs ever. he said the whole pedigree register system seems to be made up like an honor system. hmmmmmmmmm don't know if he is far wrong there. as much as i don't want to say it. but i still say inbreeding is not the single cause of why pedigree dogs are suffering from genetic problems.

with the chihuahua boy, half a cup of dry food is too much, halve that. exercise him more. Mine are given milk from a very early age, as most say it causes the runs. mine never have the runs, i do give them lactose free milk though. give him half the amount you described then fill up his bowl with milk. if he is not used to milk, gradually introduce it into his diet by mixing it in his food. does he get anything else besides dry food? i like to just sprinkle a few bits on top of their meals, i cook for mine or give them BARF they have a wide variety of foods. Then if they get sick or required to lose weight etc. it is much easier to give them other things to help. if they are fed on a straight dry food diet they aren't use to other foods and it makes it harder. I have known other breeders just to feed their dogs their whole lives on dry food and i really disagree with this. I know of a heck of a lot of chihuahua breeders too, that cook for their dogs (mince, veges, pasta, rice etc. etc.). in regards to your big problem, sounds like bf is getting it too good with your parents and has become too dependant on them especially if it saves money. i know of a lot of 20 year olds that live with their parents to save money. but you pay a price of no independence and getting on with your life, always stuck. you sound very stressed. its only natural that parents and family cause you problems if you live in close proximity to them in the same house. i moved out when i was 23 and it was the best thing i ever did in my life. i moved out by myself with my dogs and my dogs helped me alot and i never felt lonely.

Really there are many people in the ANKC and kennel clubs around the world that hold views that they would like to see some modernization and change. Here are some good links about inbreeding. They attempt to explain inbreeding in a factual way and to answer some the agruments made which attempt promote inbreeding. You will have read many of these arguments before and here they are investigated in more detail. This one might be good if you are not sure you really want to spend much time reading but want to get a general idea, as it covers some of the most frequent topics you will read about. http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2010/11/inbred-mistakes-ii.html The whole series of 6 Inbreeding Mistakes is found here Inbreeding Mitakes http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/?s=Inbred+mistakes hmmm okay.....what the media is saying is that we see many genetic problems/faults because of inbreeding with the pedigree dog. This statement is incorrect. my point still is, a dog can suffer from a disease, genetic problem by being outcrossed to a bloodline and recessive genes, the dog doesn't have to be pedigree. to get features in breeds that may not be desirable can be due to selection rather than straight inbreeding. it doesn't necessarily have to be breeders who are only breeding for the showring. I've seen it in breeders who are only concerned with their hip pockets. It can affect any breeder not only show breeders. an ethical breeder strives to breed a healthy litter, by doing tests and using healthy examples, researching a bloodline viewing as many of that bloodline as possible to ascertain if there are any genetic problems that will be passed onto the produced pups. however, some genes being recessive doesn't rule out that we get that odd one that might be slightly affected with a genetic problem. All you can do as a breeder is inform the buyer of these problems, get the dog desexed so it does not get used in the gene pool. what else can you do? all dogs no matter what their breeding is has potential to be affected with a genetic problem whether we know the bloodline or it is not known (cross breed bitsas). just my thoughts. it just continually gets up my nose how these people are reporting on genetic problems when they are not reporting on the full story of what is actually going on here.

It seems people would rather say 'that's too hard' and throw thier arms up I am a newbie to pedigree dogs but I would love to see people forming ideas, writing proposals to thier state bodies or whatever needs to be done. However I am also young and naieve in my optimism sometimes. went to a meeting with other dogsvic members a few months ago to try to come up with ideas how to tackle puppy farmers within our organisation. They set up a committee. So far i have not heard what this committee is doing??? anyone know???? It was stated that VCA/dogsvic is one of 5 key organisations that advise the govt on dog related issues. President said that govt are now listening, the members wanted VCA to have a bigger role as before they said, govt were by passing them.

perhaps it varies from state to state? but no, i am not in the minority over here, i've been a member of our controlling state body for over 25 years and belonged to a few all breeds KC, as well as breed clubs. So no definately not in the minority i can assure you of that. ;)

yes, i agree, you seem to be having alot of problems simply because of living with other people who have their own ideas, you told us you are in your 20's time to move out, then you can do as you please and not have to put up with the family, take it from me, its stressful and i am so glad they live 3 hours from me. i love them dearly but everytime i go back to visit and stay overnight i am so glad to get away back to my own place where i can set my own rules. My mother and me share the showdogs and swap dogs and so forth and it works quite well. you can look after your dogs the way you want to look after them without having someone interfer and tell you how to do anything.

I think you'll find that there are many breeders who rescue dogs and rehome. it doesn't matter where they come from. I know of just recently a whole breed club sticking together and going to a shelter and bailing out some pups and then finding suitable homes for them. Me, myself i have had crosses and pedigrees, at the moment i have a rescue dog thats not of the breed i have exhibited or bred. ETA: on my website i promote shelter dogs and pedigrees equally - i use my dog to talk to the public (ride the metro trains at times where people mistake my dog for a guide dog because he is well behaved) and i've inspired in the past 4 people to go to shelters to get dogs because they've met my boy. I am an animal lover first I love all dogs no matter the origin, crosses pedigrees purebreds. Im not suggesting myself, to say "them" and "us" i am suggesting we bring knowledge to the table about genetics in animals. To challenge the theory that they seem to be saying all the time about pedigrees being inbred when i know myself that is not the case. Our breed for instance has been in existence in Australia since 1953. So plenty of diversity still there to not inbreed. Many breeders have imported stock over the years from UK, USA and other countries to make sure the gene pool stays varied. I know of breeders now contemplating importing and this will give us even greater diversity in bloodlines already there.

The sad thing is that some of 'us' are! Until we realise that and change attitude nothing will change - or perhaps the divide will widen. well i got told by one woman after i told her no such thing as a "pomchi" to shove my dog (with my head) up my bottom so it not true that the public only think its our heads we have up our bottoms.

we start putting collars on our babies at around 6 weeks and leave them on even over night, got a few tips in my website about lead training if you want to take a quick look. sounds like a smart puppy

The ANKC is in my opinion a toothless tiger. The ANKC is only made up of delegates from the controlling bodies. Should this not be the other way round ?. Until be have a complete National Body that has some power we shall get nothing. Always remember Queensland has not had the voting rights of other states. We may get a fair go if the negotiations continue to take place with the RNA and Dog Queensland. How do you expect to get a fair for go the Pedigree Dog World when, up to now Queensland has not had the right to vote in the powers that be. Until we have a National or similar body don't expect much. does anyone know which state 7pm project is produced in? If its melbourne maybe try emailing dogsvic to respond, just a thought. They seem good here, they do try anyway here to do right by the members i feel. Monday night VCA just promoted channel 9 peter hitchener as patron alot of members attended. I feel thats a good step in the right direction. I was surprised to read he's been a member of our organisation for 28 years. I don't know what breeds he owns, remember seeing him in a KCC mag years ago with his dogs.

yes, i'd love to give them a piece of my mind. It didn't really give the full picture what chris brown said at the end its up to the public not to buy these dogs to force breeders to breed better dogs. Being a vet he should know better to have said that all dogs no matter if cross or pedigree suffer from genetic problems and they don't have to be inbred to suffer either. i've thought about writing to this chris brown yet again, (emailed him about his article advising pet owners in a mag about 2 years ago) he recommended to get an oodle dog for an apartment as they were ideal in his eyes. So i let him have it about puppy farms and promoting a cross etc. when there are shelters full. yadda yadda yadda. He does listen, he obviously listened to what i wrote next thing he is on a puppy farm raid and going on about puppy farms and designer dogs, how bad they are. ETA: sorry i seem to be repeating myself, bear with me i have a very bad head cold and am not thinking straight at the moment :D

ask your CC to respond to the negative story on 7pm project about pedigree dogs. Email them. Thats my thoughts. If many people do this maybe they might get someone. CEO of the CC. I've just asked DogsVictoria to respond as they were asking a while ago to report to them anything negative about the pedigree dog. Doesn't say that now on the new website though.

as i said in the other thread if a bunch of us email or demand that we need someone to respond from ANKC or our state controlling bodies maybe they will listen. i just emailed dogsvic to ask them if they could respond. But as alot of us have been saying for alot of years, we need someone with a bit of charisma to stand up and be the voice of reason. its just unintelligence all this crap about how pedigree dogs are inbred and bad when a person with a bit of sense about them knows that all dogs no matter what origin can suffer from genetic problems.

i really think that there is no one out there keeping an eye on the media and responding to all this negative tripe. its up to the members to email/write a letter and ask to have someone to respond to all this, sort of like a voice of reason. they had a guy from ANKC, forgot his name and all he said was inbreeding can produce bad traits as well as good. very weak argument we need something a bit stronger i believe. the problem is that these reporters and the people they get to state things have no idea about what makes a healthy dog and then they run with the negatives. getting peter hitchener to be patron from channel 9 is a good start in Victoria though. I know that VCA have got a media group or something keeping an eye on media but as has been said for years we need a well known personality to really get in there and start responding positively to these negative crap stories about the pedigree dog. ETA: the VCA invited in the past for members to tell them if they see anything about pedigree dogs so they can respond. So i emailed them asking them to respond. if we can get alot more people asking to respond maybe they might listen

why do they keep insisting that most of the genetic problems in dogs are due to inbreeding of pedigrees. it p**ses me off i have pedigrees and my dogs aren't inbred. another swipe at pedigrees to fuel the debate of "cross breeds are healthier"??? perhaps. a bunch of people are commenting that hasn't really gone into the logic of the whole thing. dogs and all living things no matter what their breeding (they can be outcrossed for generations like mine are) can still get genetic problems, so what is their point except to create a negative outlook on pedigrees yet again and improve sales in petshops and puppy farms of designer dogs and cross breeds. what are they trying to do kill us all off so the only dog you'll be able to buy in future or adopt will be a "dog" of an unknown description still with health problems, we won't solve anything by commenting on pedigrees having problems.

its typical of this breed, they just don't know they are small they have many terrier like qualities about them

i had a query several months ago with a lady who owned a purebred poodle without papers. she said she was researching patella luxation and came across my article in my website. upon questioning her further, she'd gotten this dog from her cousin who bred unregistered dogs and knew alot about the breed she said. she wanted to know where she could find a stud for her dog and seeing as she is paying big money she wanted one that has been tested for any known diseases. so i promptly told her that any ethical breeders that are registered and testing would not want a bitch not registered mating with their dogs and she would not know what is in the bloodlines and what she could produce. she was playing russian roulette. after that i did not care to get a response back, me being frank with a stranger, so i blocked her. Last time i was honest and frank some crazy lady said she will send police around to me simply because she didn't want to hear my opinion after asking for it!!!

ahem.........hate to burst anyone's bubble here. first up.........breeders might say they've never bred a puppy like this but have they bred a dog like this? have they viewed and assessed adult dogs in their bloodline? Most pups do not show symptoms when young. how old did you buy this puppy? my earlier dogs were walked for several miles each day and they did not develop patella luxation. True=you can get problems from dog injuring itself but as i told a lady who bought a british bulldog from a reg breeder who developed grade 4 patella luxation in his 2 legs at 8 months of age, if the legs are strong its harder to damage but to be fair there is a small chance that damage can occur from injury. Mini foxie club of Australia had this problem for many years, (we had threads of this about 5-6 years ago) how they reduced incidences was recommending lots of exercise, controlled diet and good breeding. Reduced occurances. the dogs that did not get all this had a higher incidence of patella luxation in the mini foxie population. my dogs have been jumping from day dot and still no patella injuries. one girl was a big jumper tested at 12 years of age to be 0/0 by 3 different vets. another boy would run around like a crazy man tested at 10 by different vets to be 0/0. vet cannot tell you if this condition will get worse or better or a breeder likewise , i've known dogs to develop this disease at 6 months of age to get no worse to stay the same grading, i've also known dogs to get assessed at 8 months of age (no indication or symptoms) of grade 1 or half grading, then to be tested every 6 months to the final grade at the age of 3-4 years to be the worst grade possible which is grade 4. how i managed to keep this condition in check for one boy i had was i decided on doing an experiment, gave him glucosomine daily coupled with calcium and also exercise to strengthen leg muscles after doing a bit of research on what i could do. Condition eneded up staying put on the same grade for about a year then went downhill after that unfortunately. i fail to see how someone can advise you that the condition won't get worse, no one can tell you that, its very unpredicable and its very frustrating for breeders to deal with at the best of times.

i've written a webpage on it to help people. its called "screening your breeder" just as a guideline:- screening breeders bascially sums up what has been posted in here

the vet claiming it is herediatary and all of his relatives will have it too is a pretty broad statement dealing with this disease for over 25 years no one can say that unless they have a crystal ball. it sounds like the vet is accusing the breeder of up to no good. patella luxation can also be due to injury. i sold a young 8 week old male puppy many years ago to a family and becasue the vet went on and on about how good his patellas were and he was the soundest dog he'd come across in his entire life, the vet actually convinced these people to breed my pet puppy i sold. Vets have the power of suggestion and its not always good suggestions. After that episode of BYB my puppy i sold just because it was sound not because it was a good example (which he wasn't thats why he got sold as a pet) i now keep all my pups until they are old enough to be desexed. from another friend who sold a lovely little chi puppy with a molera, buyer took puppy into the vet the vet said that its a deformity the molera so convinced the buyer to put a perfectly healthy puppy down so they did! another power of suggestion. grade 1 is mild and usually there can sometimes be no indication. when they are puppies you cannot tell so if the breeder sold your dog to you as a baby they would not have known themselves so blaming them and being angry with them probably won't get a response from them. patella luxation is recessive meaning it can jump generations so the mum and dad could not have had it but a dog way back in the bloodline could have so its jumped a few generations. grade 1 is manageable and the dog can still lead a normal life with no handicaps. i recommend glucosomine supplements as i've put a grade 3 dog in one leg on this when he was younger and it helped quite a bit. Even this dog did not show symptoms you could hear the click. i always tell people to get a second opinion with this disease as there are always different views on this.