toy dog

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs. Oscars Law included. We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders". Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner! They are not interested in the future of good dogs. Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers. Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause. Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ...... Souff I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs. The pet owning public fell for it. With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect. If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?. talking to the organiser of this rally for a long time, no that is not true at all! they target farms and it was about FARMS. registered breeders are not mentioned in all of this. read prisoner for profit website and you will see what im talking about. prisoners for profit

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws. Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally. Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing. Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too. I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet. you're so right nekhbet. that is why i was disappointed that the ankc, vicdogs or even breed organisations (a poodle club would have REALLY been worthwhile) didn't rock up and have their stands on sunday, giving out fliers talking about why they're pups, dogs and members are opposed to puppy farming and why they are different and ethical.-also HOW to determine if a breeder is ethical and how to approach and find such breeders. how on earth do you expect ignorant joe blow public to find out and buy well bred pups from an ethical rigistered breeder if they don't know where to look? guys, we aren't trying to put you out of business, we're trying to say you need to push yourselves and your agenda (healthy, pedigree pups and dogs) into the public sphere. we want to catch the bad guys, as i'm sure you do, so we HAVE to work together or those left out in the codl may be the ones who didn't come to the discussions purely because their p.o.v wasn't included. if you want to shut up shop, fine. if you want to give up, fine. honestly, it already feels like you've given up on the public. even from outside the dog show world but within the animal industry it all feels very exclusive, so how are the ordinary families wanting quality pets going to feel? you pay your societies good money and you pay it for a good reason. they are not living up to your demands, they are failing you. we are saying that you can get involved in the process and ensure that pedigree dogs survive and flourish, that the recent bad attitude in the public can be turned around with positive and active involvement in society and the media. nobody on here likes working with animal lib, but the issue is real and they provide a whole lot of bodies, contacts and support to the cause. but we need more moderate reps to ensure that all side and facets of the dog world are represented and that the good breeders AREN'T thrown out with the bad. how will that happen if you won't even TRY to enter discussions? just responding to this, from my breed club we do alot of PR, we use to have a yellow pages advert for many years but then it stopped. the membership was cut back then. we often have members competitions promoting our breed to the general public and have a pets only class they can be desexed or not but mostly people from the public do attend, most of them contact me first then i hand over to the club. last competition we had that many people wanting to join up it wasn't funny so our PR (many besides me promote our little club in Victoria) is working fine. the profit side. in our breed it happens like this. bought a little girl from a breeder interstate, paid $600, this girl was pregnant accidentally when she came to me, had the ONE PUP cost me $1000 to save the puppy thru a ceasarian, nearly lost the mother but thankfully i had a brilliant vet. so i am now at a loss, do i care? nope. the money isn't important never was, never will be, and there are stories like this ALOT. i think its a good year if i break even but i dare not look at my vet receipts to work out how much loss there is. i am not interested as it takes away the joy of having my dogs to show to love to enjoy. i don't give two hoots if no one comes to buy my puppies i don't breed for anyone but myself, it usually takes about a month for a dog/pup to sell because it has to be just the right home. this year i had 3 chis to sell that didn't make it in the showring, the year before that we had a 5 year break from seling anything when i did have an 8 week old boy pup to sell 5 years ago, i had 2 ladies fighting over who i was to sell it too the VCA has said that this companion dog club is promoting our organisation to the normal pet owner....but many pedigree dog breeders/exhibitors are grumbling about it.......they had a dog show in federation square to promote dog shows and it was a huge success. so we are promoting in the general public its just not getting alot of exposure like DDs, puppy farms and the likes are..... more breeders/exhibitors need to blow our own horn though, i've had people at work come up and say "so how much money do you make" well....then they get a lecture usually i say i don't breed for money, i breed for myself for that special showdog. they are usually surprised but by the time i finish with them they understand. also i open myself up for the general public to ask me questions, had one lady do that and she got upset with me when i told her the truth about her little pomchi about how it wasn't really a breed, that was the lady that ended up threatening to bring the police in on me just because i told her a few home truths politely. but it hasn't put me off i am still offering to help whoever wants help from my website. promoting pedigrees . got accused on facebook of trying to recruit people when someone asked if anyone knows of a DD breeder for a pom cross malt. go to a shelter they said how dare i promote a pedigree.

I agree but I think the public simply do not think about it. They are totally oblivious to this fact. I'm sure it hasn't even crossed their minds for one second! Regardless of what people think of Dr Chis Brown I think he did a great job and I'm pleased this issue is being more publicly stated and showed on popular tv programs to get the word out there. I am glad more people will now be aware of this issue. i think because he is a hit with us females, well most of us anyway, LOL he will get the message out there so i am glad he is on the case now. we could not have found a better person for the job.

try wellington shire councillors write to them and see what responses you get out of them. 2 have said to me in emails, they farm livestock why not dogs, dogs shouldn't have such high privledges. the dogs in these farms are getting treated good. the list goes on the crap they tell people. just got an email from wellington shire, after i plasted an email to all the councillors in the shire STOP PUPPY FARMS CLOSE THEM DOWN lol......their response: we are monitoring each and every farm through clause....and we thank you for your email. what crap they are trying to make out they are monitoring and inspecting these farms randomly when the ranger told RSPCA puppy farm forum they havne't got the resources and then it was found their reports were blank for the last 5 years on the 14 farms down there. that farm that got raided recently with chris brown would be under wellington shire council who don't give a shite.

toydog as long as they always go broke, music to my ears. lol its always good to see an empty petshop closed down, warms my heart. lol

can i ask who posted a link to the oscars law facebook page? where Debra is talking about councillor jane hildebrandt please? i want to comment on this. i am the one that got a full lecture from this jane a while back when i wrote to wellington shire council. can i please have the link again i can't find it anywhere on face book now

seen a few have been closing down recently so it just goes to show that the public are slowly being made aware it think, shops changing their sales tactic is another indication i think really too. probably many people are going into petshops and asking where do the pups come from so they now say "family breeders" i should have really questioned further and put my 2 cents worth in on that comment but i just wasn't game enough

My friends and I call him Roger Ramjet. at least he is better than the gardener and it looks like he is willing to learn and help. where as another celeb shall call him the gardener, didn't want to listen to no one he knew it all.....this one doesn't appear to be like that.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rspca-ca...0710-104vy.html sigh there is absolutely no doubt that the PIAA support puppy factories. oh but they only support 'ethical' ones of course its only natural that they would be fighting to make it all look good to keep pups in shops. i think they are on a losing battle when they show videos of raids and the appauling conditions, thats going to get to the public and get the message out there.

is all good, first they get bombarded with the rally all over the news now we have this, this is excellent!!!!

I'm going to disagree with this. I think you'd be surprised at how many people actually have no idea puppy farms exist. I didn't until DOL. My boss didn't until me, as with our other nurse we work with. I actually think Stormie being a vet there would be very few who work in the profession who don't know where pups in petshops come from. The general public I agree whole heartedly with you, that many still are unaware. Sorry, I should have added - I'm a nurse and my boss is a vet who's been practising for over 20years now. Before DOL, we all just assumed pet shop puppies came from owhers who had an accidental litter when the dog next door jumped the fence. We had no idea puppies were bred on such a large scale in such facilities. I think the whole issue has only recently come to public light in the last few years and so we're getting small articles etc in Vet Journals, but prior to these times, there was just no information or education unless you went looking for it. the new thing that petshops say now is, we don't get our pups from smelly, wormy puppy farms we source our pups from FAMILY BREEDERS.....asked several petshops in my area where the pups came from pretending i didn't know much!

it looks like it was the one that had dogs on chook wire not sure if i can mention a name....to me......i heard they'd gotten hold of my breed there was pure chis there i tried to warn everyone (breeders) not to sell undesexed dogs down in gippy. trying for yrs to get a hold of ours in the beginning when they first started up, told them we only sell dogs desexed sorry they got mad with us several times.....

yes but ppl who breed crosses are backyarders who are a smaller version of a farmer! yes that is true not all that don't show dogs are farmers i've seen good examples of dogs from breeders not into showing and their stock have been shown (by others) to go on to win hands down some have chosen to not show but then all of a sudden turn up in the showring with a beautiful dog, but i think the example that you are using there is like comparing oranges to apples.

Mot normal people don't care about shows The only people who say "if you don't show you are a puppy farmer" are a small select group? Some people breed cross breeds (I don't like that but they do), if they health test, keep their dogs in good conditions (both mentally and physically), give them regular, breed appropriate care, then they aren't puppy farmers. i think really show people say all sorts of things at any one time, when you show or indeed being in the breed club or any club with a group of people you have to develop a thick skin. god knows when i published my articles for all to read in the club magazine about Patella Luxation the tongues were wagging but did i care, nope they can say what they like and they did some of it got back to me and i just laughed really. they still gossip about certain people calling them puppy farmers in various breeds and i tend to not listen its all nasty talk and sometimes not true at all. tend to not listen to wagging tongues......plenty of them around. but to deliberately call the RSPCA or the autorities onto another that is just plain nasty. what would be the reason to breed a cross? not to better any bloodlines, any breed, there's only one thing that attracts them and that is $ so to breed for $ is a puppy farmer. or a smaller scale version which is a backyarder. ETA: banksia claim they are an upmarket puppy farm, care is given to their dogs they preach it to whoever they can. but they are still a farmer however they paint the pretty picture.

now there is a prefix i'v heard off.

i think gayleK a new topic needs to be made headed RSPCA........ :D

im wondering the same thing :D feels like i've gate crashed part of a conversation

What a surpise..NOT! i mean that is just stupidity, these people dont' know what they are talking about, the farm gets inspected by councillors they've all visited the premises and the dogs as far as everyone is concerned are being looked after, well cared for and they are following all legislation. so legislation and more of it will do nothing to help shut down these farms like the one i am talking about. they even invite school groups in there and the schools support them as a good puppy farm and the councillors see nothing wrong with them....there are many photos to prove this is not correct. meanwhile workers have said that all these bad things happens to the dogs behind closed doors. many have witnessed on the open day. so how is legislation going to help the poor little doggies on this farm being bred to buggery. :D

Yes. No, costs are high, there is a sales budget, without pet shops, the budget would not be met. Does anyone have any idea how many pups are sold in pet shops during a week? Puppy farms only sell at the farm gate and via the net for "cream" sales - they might sell the litter for $300 each, but ask $1000 over the net. But they cannot move that number of pups over the net. They rely on the pups being visible in major shoppng centres with foot traffic of 50,000 or so Really? (Genuine question) Where does your knowledge come from? I've always been of the opinion that they can and do move hundreds over a period of time. I would guesstimate that a high profile puppy farm would sell a minimum of 150 dogs a month through the net on a good month. I think stopping the sale of puppies in pet shops would dampen the sales of some, but increase others. They rely on the pups being visible in major shoppng centres with foot traffic of 50,000 or so Absolutely Where does your knowledge come from? Trust me, it's true. When I am interested in things, I find out. :D I have no idea how many pf move via the net, but ALL the puppy farmers I know (and I know a few) rely on bulk sales to pet shops to make the budget balance. If 20 shops take 10 pups each, they only have to deal with 20 people, not 200, and the orders are regular and reliable, which "off farm" sales are not. Try stopping sales in pet shops - if the puppy farms don't go down, then bring in legislation. i second that, i live in the same area as the major PF in Victoria and i heard from a friend of a friend that their major outlet is selling to shops. i also heard that the sales on the actual property were down because of the bad publicity generated from ALV. i also heard many years ago before they had their glossy website that they also sold out of a boot of a car and also saw they sold through the local paper but sales were down there, BTW they can put anything on their websites to make themselves look good so can anyone else, i wouldn't believe what they put on them..... they have on their website about shelters and their dogs don't end up there as they stated at the open day, but how can they monitor pups sold to petshops when anyone buys them, they will personally get them out of the shelters they said. how will they know which dogs are theirs if they don't get owners names and addresses with the 2000 pups they sell a year? we have to start somewhere in curbing this cruel trade and absolutely dominating by banning sales in shops. RSPCA are trying to target not only puppy farms but also backyard breeders with this legislation. but i think what they are proposing looks to me like it will not target puppy farms but breeders and they are including registered breeders in the equation as well. the opposition are proposing to stop farms by bringing in more legislation, councils will still enforce it the same council who don't give two hoots about failing codes of practice. the same council who believe the dogs are cattle and should be treated as such. the reason why the dogs are only checked on at 6am in the morning because they are livestock and thats what some farmers do with their sheep and cattle. left to die a ex-worker said, if they are useless at breeding then they are shot or put down and no one cares about these dogs. everyone down there from the council to the farm itself are covering their butts. so we don't need more legislation we need to shut the farms down we need to have laws to prevent these farms from going on and shutting down their avenues of disposal i.e. petshops.

that is what is happening at Banksia sad to say. i agree 100%

the RSPCA a couple of months ago had some sentences openly bashing registered breeders that wasn't correct like for instance about rhodesian ridgeback breeders and culling puppies so i wrote to them and said they are in the minority, and repeated sentences what was in the doco "pedigree dogs exposed" i wrote to them and said that it is different in OZ and get their facts straight, i wanted to use some of the puppy farms stuff on my own website. then had a go at them rubishing reg breeders- it made me very angry the ill-informed info on their site..... they have taken it down!! i can't find it anywhere now, ....they invited me to use their puppy choosing articles and i said that i have had mine up for 12 years now way before anyone had a website and i will use my own articles thanks. most of what they have said is very similar to my articles not that im saying they copied them its just common sense whats in mine and whats in theirs. but anyway, the rally wasn't about RSPCA it was about stopping puppy farms raising awareness in the community. most of the people at work don't care about such things but they'd all heard about the rally and what it was about. it was on the news and everywhere. so thats good. its one step at a time. i don't know if the RSPCA are going to get their licensing thing through.....i have a problem with providing addresses as i don't want would be thieves to know where we live really. don't agree with that. not really fair. whereas a puppy farm would welcome it as then prospective buyers would know where they are so they can sell more dogs.

We will all go down the gurgler because of their stupidity. Many of us live in other states, and why would we attend something that we believe will harm us. We have complained about farms and complained bitterly. Their are other people also working on the puppy farm situation not only you. Don't any of you dare take a holier than thou attitude with those that work so hard to eradicate puppy farmers. Never have any registered breeders said they don't support you in your efforts over puppy farms. What we don't support is that we as breeders are being included in all and sundry. Some of you have only scratched the surface, but some of us have dug deeper. Some of us have been through things like this before and been caught and we don't intend to get caught again. We can appreciate your feelings over puppy farms and will stand firm with you as our feelings are the same. It is some of you that have no appreciation for the way registered breeders feel about us being included. And included we have been. Have a thought for us as we can end up losing out big time.... Our dogs. Most registered breeders are the least of your worries. If we go, where do you get healthy, home reared, health tested puppies from ?. I am so angry that a group of people could cause me to lose the thing that I love...breeding a better dog than the litter before. Just because you have no foresight in the matter, and can't see that this will turned around and come back to bite us all. aint going to work set out to destroy p f's and you ultimately destroy your self. how? you think your ethical, who says other registered breeders do? every witchhunt, every pogram ie spanish inquisition, saw thousands of innocents die. considering today we know witches dont exist any more than santa clause is still here and delivering presents. every witch that died did so because somone didnt like em how confident are any of you that everyone in this world likes u? find out soon enough when u discover yr tied at the stake this time instead of among the crowd watching the latest burn its easy to see in the RSPCA website that they are out to get registered breeders this is why many are upset and i can't blame them. most of RSPCA information is incorrect they are including ethical small hobby breeders in the equation and you can't tell them different. tightening of existing laws isn't going to do much for anyone, DD"s will still be bred in large scale......banning sales in petshops as the rally suggested as Darren hinch said., will turn the puppy trade upside down on its head then it will be back to registered breeds as it should be and how it was many years ago before this DD craze, it has happened in other countries after banning live pet sales in shops also it curbs impulse buying and thousands of shelter dogs, petshops are just fueling this DD craze, backyarders see how much money they make breed up themselves and then we get an overload in shelters as you all know. RSPCA views is pretty wacked from what i've read.......there is already laws that farms comply with, backyarders comply with......one clear message needs to get through to stop all this craziness and pointing fingers at the wrong groups, that is ban dog and cat sales in shops.

exactly look at the photos on prisoners for profit that some of the visitors took.

i get really angry when i read that banksia have been breeding for 50 years! being in the same area for many years it is less than us, its only 20 i think they are combining peoples experience together. they did not start in 1960!!!!! and to say they are different more upmarket is bullocks, many witnesses on their open day to say otherwise, they hid many areas from public view. they only show the good areas to councillors. councillors have it in their heads that this farm is cleaner and better than all other farms, but they are one and the same.

hmmm a few gippslanders did very well.