toy dog

ok up until this post i was wondering what your angle was. i get it now. i still think someone is going to have to shoot me again i am sorry to say, put me out of misery. this is really doing my head in good. yes they have neglected to mention about mandatory desexing in oscar's law..... souff, you are saying me and oscar law people like as though i am part of that group, i am not, i am not part of any group, i just support closing of farms and banning sales in petshops, all the other stuff, sounds like hidden agendas, bills put forward by RSPCA and oscar law people may or may not be partnered with them don't know, i hope not.......it all sounds deeply political to me and really the reason why i say its doing my head in is because i despise politics......kennel clubs that get political absolutely despise it, it can get like that at work places too i am of the mind that i don't need it, don't want to play in it, Dogsvic are having a forum on puppy farmers in october so it will be interesting to go along and just see what will be said, they are asking what is the best way to tackle this issue, they are asking for input from their members. like DogsQLD are obviously doing, they do name and shame breeders who don't follow the code of ethics they do publish names in the gazette every month i see, and also fine the breeders in some cases or suspend their membership just depends, it seems to be different for each member. i.e. if a breeder breeds a bitch before 12 mths of age or has more litters than they are supposed to according to the rules. also i heard down the line that breeders who have bred alot of litters are being questioned why they are having so many litters. breeders that i've known for many many years. again, it is within the toy group i am speaking about not any other group. i have no idea what is going on with other groups and other breeders of these other groups. dogsvic did say in one monthly gazette that they do have a dialogue with government departments so maybe RSPCA are pushing for their stuff and dogsvic are counteracting it. so dogsvic are trying to address this situation of farmers within our ranks i see. but its a very hard issue to address i feel.....who is a farmer who isn't.....who's ethical and who isn't? how do you categorise a farmer thats reg with the ANKC? RSPCA are trying to address puppy farms and also Backyard breeders in the one hit but the problem i have with their bill and what i have read is they are trying to get through to govt by grouping reg breeders in with backyarders and farms. i think RSPCA should just concentrate on backyarders and farms and let the state controlling bodies deal with their own members RSPCA from what i have read so far have no idea about pedigree dogs but they think they know because UK put out a negative doco on them. so how would you guys address the issue of farmers within our ranks, what is the best way to deal with them? well you would understand this one asal, with our breed, they have a molera some chis? well we all got into discussion at a show one day and apparently one breeder sold a puppy with a molera, young puppy to a person who took it to a vet, and you know what the stupid vet said, put it down dogs should not have a hole in their head, so the poor pup was put down! so you can get idiot vets. i've had timid chihuahuas.....just the genes its nothing we've done to the animal all our dogs get treated the same, all end up with different personalities just like humans. but inexperienced people might see it as the dogs been hit or abused. think its important to recommend your own vets for new owners to go to rather than just randomly picking a vet that might turn out to be an idiot.

that is true what you have typed extra and we all know this but that info i cut and pasted is designed for the general public.....if you tell them all that people are going to get confused. what would you guys say under "what is the difference between a ANKC breeder and a puppy factory?" I mean we can all say what we really feel and i do agree with the point that many of us dont want people coming to our homes sizing up our dogs then taking them away when we aren't home or telling someone unscrupulous, (my worry all the time) but how is that going to help the cause?

cut and pasted from oscar laws website: What is the difference between a registered breeder and a puppy factory (and how will I know)?A registered breeder is registered with the Australian National Kennel Council and must meet certain requirements. A breeder will usually specialise in one breed and is also likely to be involved in showing that breed. A puppy factory will not be registered with the ANKC. Many claim to be registered, but they are just a ‘registered’ business! The ANKC only registers ‘pure breed’ dog breeders. All designer dogs are cross breeds. A breeder will be happy for you to visit them to meet the parents and the pups at their own premises, in fact most will insist. Puppy factories will not. If puppy factories who meet the legal requirements of minimum standards of care will not let you see their breeding facilities - they know that you will be horrified. A breeder will know about their breed, they will be happy to answer your questions and are very likely to have plenty of their own. If you are suspicious, go home and do some research. What’s wrong with cross breed dogs?Nothing! Cross breed dogs are just as likely to make a wonderful pet as a pure breed. But because puppy factory dogs are mass produced and kept in isolated conditions until purchase, they have a high likelihood of suffering from behavioural and health problems. Why are there health problems with pups from puppy factories?Many breeds of dogs have conditions that they are prone to, such as hip dysplasia, chronic skin conditions, overshot jaws and heart murmurs. Good breeders test their breeding dogs for these conditions prior to mating. Puppy factories do not and, as they have no contact with the puppies once they have left the factory, they have no idea what genetic defects they are continuing to breed into these puppies. Why are pet shop puppies more likely to have behaviour problems?It has been known by behaviourists for years that the most important time in a puppy’s development is between 3 to 12 weeks and puppies isolated during this time (say in a glass box in a pet shop or cage at a factory) are much more likely develop behavioural issues than a well socialised dog. In short - puppy factory puppies miss out on the two things that are known to help shape a good, stable temperament for later life; good breeding and many and varied positive life experiences before the age of seven weeks. As long as they're cute and fluffy, the factory farmer gets his money. What happens to ex-breeding stock?Dogs should not be bred every heat cycle as it is bad for their bodies. Puppy factory bitches are bred every time they come into heat, until their uterus prolapses and falls out of their body. Once the dog is no longer useful for breeding it is destroyed and replaced by one of her female pups. Dogs rescued from puppy factories are often very difficult to rehome. They have known nothing but a cage their entire life and struggle to cope with the outside world. Many of these dogs can not be rehabilitated as pets and will be euthanased. The ones that are saved will need special care their entire lives.

yes your answer was in the quote. still saw it though. Well your luckier than me because mine merged to a blur so I deleted It. I'll go in and give it another go if you like. i've forgotten what your answer was!

yes your answer was in the quote. still saw it though. Well your luckier than me because mine merged to a blur so I deleted It. I'll go in and give it another go if you like. a blur? sometimes DOL does funny things. i kept on doing double posts further up. it was taking ages to load up so i got impatient and pressed reply again. oooppssss i have to go i am not meant to be on here, my boss is calling i wonder if i could hide under the desk.

yes your answer was in the quote. still saw it though.

think you will find that RSPCA are more against us, i think we should be more worried about them. RSPCA are the ones that have more power with the government to put all this through and bung us in all in the same group. JMHO

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them. Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world --Lhok Do you really think they will answer you ?. I would be amazed if they did. The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop. well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to? I sent an email on their contact form. --Lhok Also to add, I am done with this debate. I tried to see things from both points of view, to debate logically. Damned if you do Damned if you don't --Lhok i've gone crossed eyed!!! i think really there is no easy answer to all of this and it just gets more and more complicated. I wish there was an easy answer i wish politicians knew what they were doing and councillors were on the good side but its all about selfishiness in this world and money and patting each other on the back. thats more important nowadays.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them. Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world --Lhok Do you really think they will answer you ?. I would be amazed if they did. The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop. well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to? I sent an email on their contact form. --Lhok Also to add, I am done with this debate. I tried to see things from both points of view, to debate logically. Damned if you do Damned if you don't --Lhok LHOK, i will msg you private with a contact.

THE SOLUTION – Oscar’s Law •Abolish the mass production of dogs. Make factory farming of dogs illegal •Ban the sale of animals from pet shops, online and in print media •Encourage people to adopt animals from shelters, pounds and rescue organisations •Work on increasing the re-homing rate in pounds and shelters and introduce the no-kill philosophy which has proven to work in USA. http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ •Commence running a REAL campaign about true and responsible companion animal care. Ever see a pound advertise their animals ? Ever see a pound open for longer than an hour a day ? Pounds need to start competing with pet shops and then they can stop killing healthy animals. where do they mention reg breeders? yes they should include reg breeders in the 3rd point, encourage people to adopt animals from shelters pounds and rescue organisation or buy from a reputable ethical reg breeder perhaps but if no one tells them i think they don't include reg breeder in the equation perhaps. its not about reg breeders and out to get them, its about abolishing puppy farms, their main focus is on them. the RSPCA is the ones you should be questioning they are the ones that want to bring in laws that in my opinion are all about bunging reg breeders in with farms, backyarders all together. as i said before they are aware of us and what we are about.

I am aware that other people have lives and what not, however it really should not take almost a week to answer my question considering it was only about their stance on registered ethical breeders and seeing how they already had stated that they were not opposed to them I would have thought that the answer would have been forthcoming very quickly. It also should not matter if I sent an email from a free email provider considering lots of people only use them. Manners is also a virtue, however it is one that is fading fast from this world --Lhok Do you really think they will answer you ?. I would be amazed if they did. The idea of the rally was to eradicate breeders. Full Stop. well i am a reg breeder and i ask questions of oscar law people and i always get a prompt answer who did you speak to?

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!) um.........um........souff didn't write that it was me, are you saying i sound like Souff???????? or did you hit the wrong button and quote the wrong post? OOOPpppss - sorry Toy Dog, very new to posting (my apologies)! But it is an excellent post! no worries. my big dog has an old saucepan as a bowl, an antique saucepan thats about 30 years old thats lost the handle. :D

Excellent post Souff - (I remember the banged up old saucepan feed bowl doubling as a toy!) um.........um........souff didn't write that it was me, are you saying i sound like Souff???????? or did you hit the wrong button and quote the wrong post?

oh ok i'll come back, ;) and i know i really shouldn't be taking things so personally particularly when im in a debate. some breeders, like me for instance. i took it to mean this. a little dig at me. correct me if i am wrong, if i am right......... steve i don't claim to know all there is to know and be totally educated on absolutely everything when i learn something new i don't hide it as i did on this thread with the electric fences and admit i didn't have any idea, but the ignorant ppl that sit on council are not dog people never intend to be dog people and have no idea about dog issues and have told a few people they don't want to know either! dealing with the patella luxation issue, writing my articles doing research with other breeders and logging their info i learnt earlier on in the piece that we all have different views on things we are all not of the same mind, we are all at different levels and have different experiences. some breeders think that they have learnt there is all to learn are used to doing things a certain way for the last 40 years and don't want a yeehah coming in telling them whats what which i completely understood. its about sharing info and using that shared info to make changes for the better. none of which wellington shire and any council for that matter want to do. because the people in power in charge of dog matters aern't qualified to make the hard decisions. the new ranger down there doubles up as a traffic officer. as was the guy before him which we knew well being my mum's boss. (lollipop lady). so how do you get those types to listen and to do their job properly when they don't want to? then you show them the evidence in black and white and they deny it is so even though the evidence is there to hit them in the face. even though you have seen the abuse with your own eyes for years.

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card. gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread.. Yes let pet owners make educated choices on whether they want to desex their pets or not. im sorry but dont really agree with that, so shoot me thats just the thing too, half the time you are dealing with people that don't want to be educated, can't be bothered being educated. (like the silly councillors that i spoke to numerous times). And like the animal rights and some breeders - worse the ones who think they are already educated enough. is this being directed at me? Why would it be? ok this is getting crazy. im done.

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card. gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread.. Yes let pet owners make educated choices on whether they want to desex their pets or not. im sorry but dont really agree with that, so shoot me Why? steve i already said why.

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card. gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread.. Yes let pet owners make educated choices on whether they want to desex their pets or not. im sorry but dont really agree with that, so shoot me thats just the thing too, half the time you are dealing with people that don't want to be educated, can't be bothered being educated. (like the silly councillors that i spoke to numerous times). And like the animal rights and some breeders - worse the ones who think they are already educated enough. is this being directed at me?

i'll elaborate down there, as i've been saying for years, we need a group of us to go lobby that shire to get them to take notice, one person can't really achieve much or just a few, its needs more people. people that actually live there and be protesting. what this shire is saying is that many are protesting but its coming from outside the shire not the people that actually live there. whether this is true or not i have no idea as i say what i got told by a few councillors in there turned out to be bogas information. there's too much political crap going on down there and back patting behind the scenes. and everyone is forgetting about the dogs and their suffering.

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card. gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread.. Yes let pet owners make educated choices on whether they want to desex their pets or not. im sorry but dont really agree with that, so shoot me thats just the thing too, half the time you are dealing with people that don't want to be educated, can't be bothered being educated. (like the silly councillors that i spoke to numerous times).

yep well write to Wellington shire and see the response you get. its a circus in there. the councillors mock you. they are all lazy. No, write letters to the editor of the local newspaper, makes more aware of the situation. done that!!!!!!!

yep well write to Wellington shire and see the response you get. its a circus in there. the councillors mock you. they are all lazy.

Does this include maditory desexing all working dogs, like all the working kelpies, border collies and koolies that are not registered in the ANKC? Sorry but which council is this? its Wellington shire in all its glory. the one that has igornant stubborn councillors that you can't tell. they mock the public when they write in complaining about puppy farms and why they have so many. their excuse is, there aren't any residents that object. my

thats ignorance in all its bliss....if she had of said that to me i think i couldn't be bothered to explain just walk away not worth the stress of having them back at you. got burned with one lady a few months ago when i told her a few homes truths about her little cross breed politely mind you. she was going to get the police onto me to beat my door down. did not like what she was hearing at all.

so.....let pet owners make a choice whether they desex or not? if you are vicdog you are exempt you just have to provide your membership card. gee if that was the case there'd be a few rubbing their hands together in glee breeding their pet? on the other hand, they've had those laws in place for many years and still we see backyard breeders and people breeding their pets for money left right and centre as was reported on another thread..

im a city slicker suffering from memory loss! yes, we had dogs who would go and flush out the rabbits after sticking the rifle over the fence, nice tea at night, only visited a supermarket every fortnight just eat of the land. don't think you could do that now, i think wild rabbits suffer from (well they did later on) mixamotosis etc. the dogs would go down the burrow, then after they were finished come back home. The rabbits around here dont have mixo or calisi - wish they did. On dusk you see thousands of them pop their heads up in the front paddock. that must be a weird sight. lol i notice they have a rabbit problem at KCC park (state dog park) often you'll drive beyond the gates and you see a rabbit running away, in the exercising yards there is either sheep poo or lots of rabbit poo.