toy dog

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer. Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something? No, but really did you think about what you wrote before you put it out there? Statements like that don't do responsible breeders any favours. well thats your opinion and i have a right to put whatever i want on my own website end of story

Copied from your very own website.... "A puppy farmer is a person who sells their dogs for money"...... so by your very own definition, anyone who has ever sold a dog for money is a puppy farmer. Do you mind telling me what you require as a means of payment for any pups you may sell what is this now a witchhunt on me personally or something?

if you mean putting up oscar law stuff, i've had that there for years and never really thought about it, after this lively discussion and others point of view on the whole thing, im actually thinking that instead of supporting their cause and giving out oscar law flyers, i think i will forget it and make up my own, something that entails the benefits of pedigree dogs over pups and dogs bought at petshops and puppy farms. the state controlling body here had flyers you could download of their webs a few years ago and distribute far better to do this. i feel like a rebel now especially when it was made clear that i was not to promote pedigree dogs at all against crosses. lol

apparently i am being told that this subject has been done to death over the years a few posts back someone said this sorry i can't be bothered to look back. i am not a regular i've been on DOL since 2004 but disappear for months at a time i was unaware of this subject. i still find this discussion facinating and perhaps if the people who are saying this has been done to death perhaps don't read this thread if people are so sick of it??? just a suggestion ;) im not the only one repeating myself as many are trying to get their points across. all good. im also not the only one that is sometimes maybe a bit off topic. i don't want to start trouble with anyone especially people i don't know, but being told these things is bound to get up anyone's nose especially when we are all on a public forum and wanting to participate as best as we can. ok enough said....this in itself is so back on topic.

ah but wait they'll still find you, locals talk and some even go as far as to dob in anyone seeing doing the wrong thing by the animals. ;) so you won't get away with it na ah ah (always wanted to use that emoticon and now i found a reason to )

maybe thats why they don't like me then but i don't care.

what does EFS mean can i ask? i just think this is an excellent point. im looking from the puppy farm end and what the government said they'll do, make tougher laws before they came into office in VIC at least, but it helps no one least of all the dogs. and they have all these laws in place like height of cages yadda yadda yadda, yet able to keep their dogs on chook wire every day - it must hurt the dogs poor little paws, they sit in their plastic bowls or beds all day to get away from the wire , they give birth on this wire so the poo can fall through to the bottom and it stays there, the metal sheds they are kept in i often wonder how hot it is in the summer and how cold it is in the winter all they have is fans to keep the dogs cool in summer no air-conditioner like my dogs get. I often look at my own dogs and think how these dogs must be suffering and how i can't do anything about it. it makes me sad..... this farm was found to be operating illegally they didn't even have a licence in the start then continued to flout the law with other various things but still everyone knows about them and they still continue to exist, now they have a licence i believe. by rights you keep on breaking the law you don't get to operate a farm or own animals as steve says, but time and time again these people still get to to do these horrible crimes against animals, and some are licenced - no one can stop them. i know about this one personally as i have had the misfortunate to meet and grow up with one of the operators much to my embarrassment they are a waste of space..... i know how they operate they are a cold cold person i know what lengths they go to with their animals care factor is ZERO. same person who tried to get our dogs in the beginning at that time was just a BYB but now a fully fledged puppy farm. thank god we had enough sense to desex all of our dogs before selling in this area as they even had the gall to send along people to try and trick us into selling at one stage.

no i think what is being said is these dogs are being bought from a puppy farm for thousands of dollars???? so the farmer yet again wins big by selling to rescues so whoever they sell to doesn't matter to the farmer as long as they make their money. play on the emotions of the people trying to help the dogs. this wouldnt' help anything i don't believe it would only serve to encourage?????? where do the rescue get all this money to buy the dogs, when most are crying out for more funding?

i agree 100% with this statement, this is what i've been trying to say and poodlefan said it better not long winded like i. some clubs invite the public to open days where the breeders get together and let the public ask questions and hold puppies and it is great great PR for the breeds involved. I personally walk my dogs down busy streets and i get people coming up wanting to chat, ALSO i have a website where i invite the public to ask me questions on dogs and that is rescues plus pedigrees. both equally i just love dogs so willing to help. this creates quite a bit of traffic for me so i can then educate on the no-no's of petshop buys and direct people to a more appropriate purchase of their pet. however, you do get the ignorumesus's for instance, one lady who asked me for a pomchi, i politely pointed out it is a pom cross chi and where to get one i.e. shelter not a BYB or farm then she got all defensive claiming that is the name they are called and then started calling me very nasty names, her last email before i blocked her abuse out was get your pedigree dogs and my head and shove it up my behind all because i politely suggested to her that it is called a pomeranian cross . so you are always going to get people out there that think they know better and dn't want to be educated, their loss. its always entertaining those types of people i must say.

thanks nic.b you'd think the way i was spoken to i am suggesting my way or the highway mack, instead of trying to defend myself with incorrect assumptions and just expressing the way i feel which happens to coincide with alot of people apparently. i do agree with what most has written in the DEBATE and i do try to consider what is written by others if I can. this is what we are all doing debating and alot of individual opinions are expressed in a forum. if we all knew what each other was thinking and knew the whole lot about everything it would either be very boring or we'd have no need to have forums in the first place would we.

i realise this but i am getting asked questions and i have to explain myself as people are trying to summerise what im saying in a completely different way jaybeece plus we are not the only ones that read these forums if you do a google search on a particular subject these forums will come up so the public do read these too. not just "us"....mate.... ETA: i do believe i've just been told to p***ss off so i will then jaybeece obviously you have taken upon yourself to speak for everyone in these forums and no one is interested in reading my posts. everyone else is writing "essays" as you have so politely put so they can but i can't.

well as i've been saying a few times, these people have a history with keeping dogs and i believe a leopard doesn't change its spots overnight. no it wouldnt be okay for me becaue they are still breeding dogs for money and they are still going to pump out how many pups they can pump out. which could be hundreds or thousands, keeping 50 just includes the adults it doesn't include the pups produced. so they pretty much have a free reign on that just as long as they get rid of the pups before 12 weeks when they have to register them with the council. my own auntie was a puppy farmer herself, she was only concerned with making money off ped dogs and now i realise that but in those days it was never spoken off and never concentrated on but she was also very cruel to the pups that were unhealthy but still alive, no one hardly ever took dogs to the vets to be put down, they either drowned them or buried them alive. i've heard all the stories and it makes me sick. this is going back in the 1950's 1960's so a very long time ago. no thats what im saying i agree with you, as long as the public buys and wants these petshop puppies and this allows farmers to keep churing them out, we will never stop the cycle, it is up to joe public they have the power to stop this. attitudes have to change whether they will or not i don't know. but some say the tide is turning as in recent years thanks to groups like oscar law and rescue and RSPCA (not my fav people ) its out there for the public to consider.

thats just it what i was saying about genetics and breeding standards etc etc. can't really go into it all and make it all public i could be liable here, they didn't agree with me thats why they chucked me out. i was a ped breeder and they had a problem with ped dogs being represented when as you say, it doesn't matter whether a person has purebreds or crosses they don't distinquish between the two is what i found out. if you breed dogs you are automatically a bad person only in it to make a profit and there is nothing inbetween at all. judging by my conversation with a person that was pretty high up on the ladder. i cannot say any more than that Steve. please. i know where you are coming from and you are completely right. but still i am against puppy farms like the rest of us are ofcourse we all are. O.K. Its good to be against puppy farms but running with animal lib is folly. i can't speak for anyone else but i am not RUNNING with animal lib or anyone else, im not in with them or involved with them myself.....I am just following along what they are doing and saying on their webs, because i am interested. they don't talk about ped breeders out in the open mainly they speak about puppy farms so in my eyes all good. there are some reg breeders that still get to speak as they just generally speak about pup farms some are involved in rescue as well they just have a problem with me because i talked too much about pedigrees apparently which is a no-no in their eyes.

why don't you take all that to VCAT you seem to have it all worked out pretty well.

don't get me started on RSPCA and what they define the main thing for me is they coupled with oscar law people and got the message out there that puppy farms are there to the general community all the other stuff they say some of it, i don't really agree with, really, they'd be better to define puppy farms as people who breed dogs for profit in substandard conditions. but for me a farmer can have registered dogs too i have come across many over the years, they don't give a shite about the dogs.....it doesn't exclude them just becuase they have purebreds i am not that shallow to suggest that pedigree breeders are any way better. its an individual case by case thing, but what im saying is a person that breeds cross breeds has less of a chance to be able to do all the things an ethical registered breeder does breeding dogs for a purpose other than for profit.