Just Midol

My dogs will retrieve our Birman?

Lmao, it was laughable. Funny actually. I have a feeling she actually supports BSL. ---- I don't keep my GSD in a concrete pen. Never will. He isn't registered either. Ohh the horrors.

When I say I am waiting for it to submit I mean I am waiting for him to relax and accept that he isn't going to be let go, I'm not talking about submitting in a dominance sense. I hope that makes sense

They are a very BIG company. Evil or not, they make good soap. Unilever is possibly one of the most unethical corporations in the world. I can't believe people still support them, even more disturbing that dog owners support them. They've attracted cricitism from everywhere, animal welfare, environmentalists, social activists. Many companies are evil in some way, get over it! Now, give the lady some brightening/whitening advice or get off your soap box. I find it sad that someone who appears to like dogs supports unilever. Whatever, if you think it's okay to test beauty products on rabbits and dogs then that's your choice. You're probably happy about it, wouldn't surprise me. Shop ethically! Hell no, burning our rabbits eyes is way more fun! Being the cause of primates dying! Yay! Racism? Who cares! Not sas!

I'm not a dog. Anthromorphising is a bad idea. I suggest you don't do it So if a dog has a tantrum you let it go?

If I were to make a judgment on your posts and your posts alone, it would appear that the answer is yes. Jed, can you post more often please? It makes my day, a daily pick me up! I imagine most people feel the same way, so keep posting. We love it. --- Tony, I don't think you quite understand Jed and Crisovar. Anyone who prefers working line dogs is instantly a standard hater and hates purebred dogs. It's just how show breeders view the dog world. I guess they don't like the fact that people actually produce working line dogs.

I also love it when the showies come in here bitching to the working guys, but then have a whinge when any working person dares to question breed standards or show breeders. Laughs for all!

I love how anyone who doesn't agree with a standard is ignorant and doesn't understand it. It's as though people think it is impossible to have an informed opinion against them. Arrogant much? On the BBC world service today they had a discussion on scent detection dogs. 85% of pups born in a litter can work to a high standard.

Incorrect, the dog was formed FROM herding dogs AS a utility dog. You've offered no logical reason as to why Schuhtzhund was started in 1901 if GSDs weren't used in such a fashion till 1914. Probably because you haven't ask me to give a reason. If everyone knows the breed was developed as a utility dog then why is the breed in Herding groups all around the world? Give me a reason then. If we want to discuss what groups it is in then you must also accept that the breed standard lists it as a protection dog and herding dog I've said numerous times that the GSD was created FROM herding dogs. But it was bred as a utility dog, suitable for many purposes. I believe I quoted something that answers your first question and second question. I don't expect you to conceed you are wrong either, I am not saying I am right, but nor am I saying you are until you can show me something that proves the breed was developed as a sevice dog first and not as a herding breed. Who do you think I was giving his view points of? No, you've provided nothing that answers my first question. You also provided no reference for it. Why would I say the dog was developed as a service dog? I've never made such a claim. Is this Schutzhund club also wrong and ignorant about their breed of choice and sports history? Reference. It is important to note however, that I don't actually care what the breeds original working purpose was.

Ahh, I see where I misunderstood the ADT. Saw cosmo mention it and thought she was talking about you. Other than that, I think you're intentionally misleading people. If the guy was handling your dog roughly you would have pulled him up instantly, like any caring owner would do. You didn't, which means the dogs tantrum upset you.

Incorrect, the dog was formed FROM herding dogs AS a utility dog. You've offered no logical reason as to why Schuhtzhund was started in 1901 if GSDs weren't used in such a fashion till 1914.

Probably because he knew the breed was dying out being a herding only dog, and for it too remain the breed needed to evolve. The below quote still gives the impression the GSD was formed as a herding dog but became a utility dog as an after thought. The word utility used before this change seems to be regarded the different kinds of herding required. He believed it might decline 2 years after the first creation of the breed? The breed always has been a utility dog. But I don't expect you to conceed that you were wrong. You'll have to prevent a better argument than the one you did, WW1 was in 1914 and Schuhtzhund started in 1901. If they were only used for protection in 1914 then why was schuhtzhund created in 1901? GSD Standard: Standard specifically claims the dog is for companion, guard, service, herding & schutzhund. It doesn't say or anywhere, all of them. Also, Max also originally said that the GSD should always be bred for working ability first, and appearance second. Appearance should never be sacraficed for working ability. He also stated that unless you're a working line breeder, then you're not a GSD breeder. If we care so much about standards then surely we'd care about the view of the man who created the standard?

Does that go for all breed's or just the ones that are picked and choosed by some "all knowing" individuals? You do realise that a fair amount of breeds original functions are illegal to perform in Australia or incredibly hard to do legally? So given that GSD's are first and foremost herding dogs, not security dogs, than is Montu a mongrel unless of course you are also doing herding with him? It was a direct response to this: Both comments are invalid as the other, my comment wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Typical response regarding the herding comment. GSDs were designed as multi-purpose dogs. The first GSD was born in 1899. The first Schuhtzhund trial was in 1901. The belief that they were primarily herding breeds is ignorance. I don't know why people continue to believe such an inconsistency, they're a utility dog. Max Von Stephanitz was one of the main people behind the push to use GSDs as protecton dogs. Hate to reference this group, but people seem to "approve" of them: http://www.ankc.org.au/home/breeds_details.asp?bid=143

But the dog, which was a pup, wasn't guided, it was grabbed by a stranger and dragged into a very submissive position, poor pup wouldn't have had any idea of what was expected of it so yes it screamed and struggled to get away from this attack. I suggest if someone many times your size suddenly grabbed you by your collar and forced you down to the ground you might seriously object too. And keep objecting until you either broke free or gave in. I've been to the ADT (I assume that is where she trains) and I've seen how they guide. They don't drag the dog into the psoition. They guide it, the dog struggles because he has never been guided into the position before. If he released, the dog has now learnt that throwing a tantrum gets them released. If ever done again, the behaviours intensity has increased. Same, but I doubt the dog was handled roughly. From how she speaks, she completely opposes guiding and was more angry that her dog was throwing a tantrum than the actual method. Throwing a tantrum is normal, and by itself, means nothing. If the trainer was really abusing her dog she would have said something.

Dogs aren't children. No one has given a single reason why a dog should be released when throwing a tanty when guided into a drop. The dog didn't like it, dog does what you say. It really is that simple.

If you don't understand it then I won't bother posting again. It's not complicated.

What's there not to understand? I'd prefer it if it focused on schuhtzhund. The one she is doing in Melbourne is not.

I don't think it's fair to treat all breeds the same. Some are more difficult to own. There should be different requirements based on the individual breeds with those breeds being more challenging having more requirements which in turn should cost more. I'd vote to have huskies in the most expensive category.

Depends what she'd cover. I'd rather see schuhtzhund clicker work but would consider it for normal clicker work.

If you've got a dog that looks the part but can't perform then you might as well own a mongrel.

guidance and compulsion isn't related to dominance. Your arguments make no sense.

gsdog2, what happens if one day at the vet he needs to be held down and the dog throws a tantrum? He might still throw a tantrum, but if the trainer didn't release till the dog calmed down then the tantrums intensity will be lower. You haven't given a single reason why the trainer should have let go. I'm very quick to judge your GSD. I'd judge one of my dogs just as quickly if they did the same thing. I'd hold them down till they stfu and accepted it. It's not a display of dominance from me (imo) it is simply me teaching him that when I physically place him into a position he must accept that position. Fighting won't achieve anything. Your dog obviously wasn't in pain, or you would have intervened.

I don't know why people say that. It's very easy to change the ground rules.

Yep, gsdogs comments are a perfect example of dogs throwing a tanty when being physically manipulated for the first time.

The problem with furniture is not really that you allow your dogs on furniture, it is that they won't get off when you ask. Problems arise when the dog does not obey your commands. Most people fail before they even start because they don't teach the dog the off command.