Just Midol

Yeah he sent me the pages but I need a day off to ring up (I sleep through normal office hours)

Training in Drive + e-collar = success.

Hopefully I'll do my first soon

I can't get my friggin camcorder working ;( Must go and get a new one quickly.

Can't say I got all the stuff from inside it, but the floor is covered with chunks of fur and pillow stuffing so it'd be impossible for me to tell *emails dogquip*

Accidentally left my puppy tug out, Gizmo took it upon himself to eat it. Does anyone know anywhere within Australia that sells puppy tugs and has quick postage or alternatively does anyone have one I can buy which you'd be able to post express? Can only find US sites and really don't want to wait 2 weeks.

As I would. But if someone who knows nothing about snake bites and was told by a health professional to take their dog home they can't really be blamed. The vet can though. Maybe but when a bunch of people tell me the health professional is wrong I would seek a second opinion or demand the original one did something more if they were the only one available. I'm not saying these two pups necassarily were in agony and cruelly treated but I can understand people's frustration at the lack of action. Frustration, yes, but nothing excuses the behaviour in this thread.

Would have loved to attend the agility weekend. I've got an interest in agility but I can't take every second weekend off work

As I would. But if someone who knows nothing about snake bites and was told by a health professional to take their dog home they can't really be blamed. The vet can though. Bittymoo, take a look at who you are arguing with and then decide whether it is worth it or not.

This is where neutralisation would have been beneficial.

I wouldn't leave them with no treatment... So what would you do, you can't get any AV. AV is the only effective treatment for elapids.

Sure looks like it. Tell me what clinic in Australia charges 4 grand for a vial of AV? 2 dogs would be two vials ... and I thought someone said the dogs might need two vials each ... so that is $2400 just for the meds, then the cost of the vets time etc would be added (times two dogs). If the vet doesnt have the AV it would need to be couriered in which increases the cost too. If it was after hours add another several hundred (times two dogs) .... I can see how it could cost $4k at some vets. ($2K per dog). Dont forget too that the OP was advised by the vet that the dogs would probably be OK and to take them home. If my vet said that I would probably believe him . I dont understand why vets who have a 'relationship' with their clients dont accept delayed payment in an emergency . If you just turn up for the first time, or if it is an emergency clinic, maybe, but not your own vet! Wow. I think some people must have their keyboards set to mandarin because obviously some people are having trouble reading their posts. Have you read the entire thread??? Bashing my head on a brick wall... Yes I have! . YOu said yourself: So BTW last time I rang around to get costs for AV, I was quoted $1000 per vial if the snake was unknown. Jut because your vet charged $600 per vial, doesn't mean that all vets do, nor do these dogs necessarily need the same AV you have priced at $600. It is also possible that the vet doesnt stock AV, so has to courier it in (as I said) AND he/she may have to purchase a minimum amount, so would charge the client accordingly. We had a case when a foster had heartworm, where the treament costs were through the roof because the vet didnt stock the meds needed, and had to purchase enough for four dogs (minimum amount sold), which we had to pay for even though we only needed enough for one dog. The same thing could happen with AV, or the vet could have felt they needed two vials each. Comprehende? (that's not Mandarin btw ) Whatever happened, I dont see how slamming the OP, who has probably lost two pups, will help . The vet should have said they needed AV, and not suggested the pups would be OK without it. The $600 vials Raz is quoting were brown/tiger. Polyvalent is a lot more expensive.

she just said she couldnt afford the AV - the vet probably advised to put them on it but not everyone can just fork out 4000 And if that's the case then the dogs should have been pts rather than left in agony, I think is the point people are trying to make. Why? Quite often dogs will pull through without AV. If your mother or father couldn't get AV after a taipan bite would you just put them to sleep or would you hope and pray that they pulled through?

I've just spent last night learning about how wolves are connected to domestic dogs and what the wolf actually eats. From what a lot of people have been saying that they eat the stomach contents, wolves don't eat the stomach contents, they will eat the stomach but leave the digested food near the kill, that is for large prey. They eat the whole kill say for a rabbit, stomach and all and it's too small to remove. Which that would normally just include grasses. I'm starting a model prey diet for Ivy. She's my black wolf, even looks like one! Yeha, they only eat the stomach contents because they have to. The feeding veges imo is a load of crap, and I don't do it. No one has provided any evidence that it's even a little bit beneficial. ---- Who gives a toss about the laws, take the offal out of the animals you kill and feed it to the dogs.

Possibly corrected/hurt him when he bit the tug? ETA: I've done tons wrong with Montu I'd be way further ahead than I am if I hadn't. I'm building his pen this weekend (I've got my program, started it this morning and already have questions for Steve )

Numerous studies have been done on the evolution of elapid venom.

Yeah, I think he probably did know what he was talking about but just dumbed it down. I'd imagine it'd be easier to just say the snake didn't inject x part than have to explain that not all dogs react the same and then have owners worrying. Not saying you're dumb... But most people are.

*wonders who Hardly Normal are using for their interest free stuff then; looks like GE on my card* My mistake. They no longer do home loans or car loans. Snakes don't pick and chose which part of their venom to inject. Now you've just shattered my belief that all vets are omnipotent beings that always know what they're talking about and are always right... What I meant was that the venom simply didn't cause whatever side effect because your dogs are special Honestly, if a vet told me that the snake didn't inject a certain part of the venom into my dog or me I'd feel like punching him in the head, but I wouldn't, as then he wouldn't be able to treat my dog (though at this point I think I'd rather buy the venom and do it myself.)

OHhh. Don't do any tug work when teething. If he bites and hurts his mouth he might not ever be willing to play tug again.

Snakes don't pick and chose which part of their venom to inject. GE Credit has pulled out of Australia AFAIK. She'd get given a polyvalent in WA if they don't know the species, a blend of all six.and it doesn't depend on how hard the snake bit or when they last bit someone. It depends on whether they wanted to kill it or not. They make a choice on how much and if they inject. It isn't luck. ---- Good luck. I hope they survive, but without anti-venom I don't like their chances.

Your vet is an idiot. Baby snakes quite often = more venom injected and more dangerous.

A dog won't keep foxes away imo, unless it's specifically bred for that. My two sibes were asleep maybe 3m from my duck enclosure... a fox got in, took all 3 and my dogs didn't even wake up.

I teach out and leave it by playing tug.

After a groomer. Would prefer one in Nambour or Maroochydore. Also will do the hinterland. A mobile one is even better. I need one who will happily groom a sibe and get all loose coat out - I rang one and they basically told me to f#$% off when I mentioned the breed and that she is dropping. Thanks in advanced.

Yeah, I vote bullshit. Might work, but I wouldn't try it