Just Midol

Interesting and relevant. A LGD is different to a normal pet dog or any of the guarding breeds though (especially working line dogs) in that natural protection is bred into them isn't it? It's all instinct based, rather than a learned response like the traditional protection breeds who have the drive to perform, but have to be trained? I don't know much about LGDs so correct me if my assumptions are wrong.

Obedience levels have nothing to do with leadership, I can have perfect leadership and a dog that doesn't know a single command. You're comparing aggression to obedience, that's absurd. If you don't believe in the dominance theory then fine, but I'm not really interested in the views of those who don't in this particular thread.

Wasn't intending to, but interested in views on that as well! I didn't consider that. Great post. I agree with the fence barking issue. Montu has a pretty low suspicion level right now but we're working on it, but if people walk down the drive way he will bark at them. However, 95% of the time he will shut up as soon as I tell him to Thanks, I was thinking along similar lines. I'm just surprised how many people basically describe fear aggression in their posts about natural guarding (of course I could be wrong) and have no problem with it. We actually had a dog similar to this, but he was very dominant (I realise this looking back, but I was about 7-13 so not much I could do). If two people were fighting or play fighting he'd go mad at the largest person. --- Thanks for all comments guys

This is mainly aimed at those who believe in the pack structure and dominance theories. If you don't, feel free to reply but you won't really be giving me the info I am after, or the discussion I am after. I've been thinking about the number of people who claim their dogs naturally guard and protect them, then see things like "We have to keep him away from people" or "we have to keep him away from people with x appearance" To me that sounds like a combination of fear aggression and poor leadership. Is it possible for a dog with no aggression and who is definitely low down in the pack to exhibit natural protection behaviours? I consider all natural protection aggression but that's not what I am discussing here. My understanding is that the pack leader should be protecting the lower pack members, so if your dog is attempting to protect you then doesn't this mean that in his eyes, you are unable to protect him and he is assuming the role of pack leader? This thread is NOT about trained protection dogs. Views would be appreciated.

Buy a duck and an axe

A vote for leadership.

Sch dogs are trained to OUT a lot better than police/security dogs. Think about it, sch dog is judged for precision and for obeying commands. Police dog is trained to capture a man and not let him get away. Sch dogs have usually far better obedience. Dont know about tracking but sch tracking is step tracking which is very precise. I disagree with that. A good police of security dog should have an out, in security, if your dog doesn't out then it's as good as dead. We don't have protection like police dogs do. QLD has a dog handling cert. It's ~$1700-1800 for the dog handling license (inc normal guarding) for 3 years.

Sure, see if the dog likes em. I'd feed them as a meal...

Yes, there are afaik. What people also fail to realise is that those who work with dogs (mainly security) have to get our dogs from somewhere, if people can no longer compete in dogsport that basically means we'd have to import every dog we wish to work with, which would kill the entire working dog industry. Vickie, the training is a touch different. The sad thing is that most schuhtzhund and ipo trained dogs are probably better trained than most security dogs.

The politics in the GSD world is insane.

The thing I find odd is the legislation makes provisions for security trained dogs, but there are no standards for sec trained dogs.

This is a great idea. What I do though is cut the wing/neck into smaller pieces, My dogs were just licking above the wing, eating the wing then leaving the ice so now they have lots of smaller bits so it takes longer.

Ahh, didn't see that. I only had a quick look and saw the working ones and was thinking "wtf... that makes no sense" :D

I don't juice or pulp anything, so the risk is low. I just didn't think he'd like cores

After seeing Steve I've realised that very few people train in drive using food. The only time I'd use food is in drive, and if I didn't have enough usable prey. But I'm a beginner.

I use a core taker outer The circle thing you slide in the middle and it cuts the core out. I didn't actually know apple seeds were bad but I don't like cores so figured they wouldn't

Nekh, go back and read my post again The sibes are fed a diet consisting of different % to the GSD. I've also been assured Montu isn't growing too fast, and is right on track. Vet was just odd

The 2% is dependent on the dog. The percentages are debatable, and no scientific evidence exists to support your assertion that veggies and dairy are required in a dogs diet.

It's not really that hard to balance a raw diet. My raw diet is basic. 50% meat, 50% bones. No veges for the sibes. Fruit + Veges for the shep just because he likes them. Sibes are on about 1.5% of their body weight. Incredibly slow metabolisms, for an active sporting dog I'd start at around 3% of their body weight and adjust depending on whether they can/lose weight. GSD is on close to 6% of his body weight in bones/mince then veges on top. He is growing though. He gets a block of mince (frozen) then a large bone each day. Usually two apples in his crate (one each time he is put away) plus a carrot whenever I feel like giving him one

I don't consider it a breach of privacy. If a product is required to be irradiated because of import conditions, then not only should this be publicly available but the products should also have it written on them in large, clear writing.

You say a working line shep will have too much drive and then recommend a Malinois?

You don't need working line dogs to obedience trial successfully. You need to be a sympathetic & imaginitive owner who can keep their dog interested In recent years there was a Terv in the ACT region who trialled at the highest level & was a state representative at agility. My own Groenendael has the makings of a fantastic obedience dog although I didn't really start her until the age of 3. However we now have maturity on our side which means a steady dog, particularly for the stays! We are also doing herding, so the Belgian Shepherd is a dog that can turn its paw to any task. However, as to the topic of the thread, I too would like to road test a Brittany Some of us just prefer working line dogs...

No scientific evidence concluding that dogs need veges. And even less to prove that they need cooked grains. Lmao, there is probably evidence they don't need it? Can never understand the grains side of it. Completely useless fillers.

No scientific evidence concluding that dogs need veges.

That's a lot of dogs. Good luck